General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: Psychology in the Atlantic.
Posted by:
John Griffiths
()
Date: March 13, 2001 04:08PM
<HTML> Aha....!
Don Baker wrote:
-------------------------------
\"Psychology, I believe. Beat thine enemy - earn his respect.
It\\\'s my theory! \\\"
An interesting treatise on Celtic history and an interesting personal theory indeed John - and do your studies indicate it may have been applied in the Battle of the Atlantic?<<
My studies, Don, were absolutely nothing to do with either Celtic history or the Battle of The Atlantic! I am an ex-sailor ( served in both Royal and Merchant Navies ), a Welshman - hence the passion for the Romano-Celtic bit - and, as a qualified Social worker, Psychology was one of my subjects - both at core and chosen levels!
The \'Beat thine enemy - earn his respect\' school of thought is applicable. Hitler wanted to bring Britain to its knees, to force her into surrendering. That way was by sinking the vital shipping that kept Britain an island fortress. By cutting that link, he felt he could soon have the British where he wanted them - at the negotiating table.
Unfortunately he reckoned without the \'reverse\' psychology that applied at that time - and, I guess, still does. We have an arrogance, us Brits, that makes us bloody fighters when backed into a corner. Witness the Falklands War - we sent a fleet down the south Atlantic and gave the invading Argentinians something to think about! It\'s also called the island mentality.
During the Battle of The Atlantic, Hitler reckoned without the courage and tenacity of all of the seamen involved, without the \'pride\' and \'tradition\' of the Royal Navy - and without the sheer drive of Winston Churchill, who - more than anyone - brought together the British to fight what he knew to be the greatest threat to these islands since the Spanish Armada. The U-boat crews and Commanders were exceptional seamen and courageous fighters - but, towards the end, they were led by a madman whose idea of Naval superiority did not match that of either Raeder or Doenitz. had either of those been Fuhrer, we may have been looking at a different outcome!
A national conciousness - that state which made Britain hang in - could also be said to have been a \'national psychological\' state of being. By using words and skilled oratory, Winston Churchill touched the hearts and minds of everyone in these islands and made them stand as one. Russia had a similar conciousness. Still has, but in pockets nowadays.
Hitler - a charisamatic man himself - had the same skill, but did not apply it as calculatingly as Churchill did. We fought the Germans; Hitler wanted the total erasure of Jews, Gypsies, the sick and disabled,etc. The conquest of Europe and the smashing of Soviet Russia. An Aryan State with Aryan ideals. Too much in fighting and clinging to \'traditions\', to a blinkered mind set...etc.
A tall order actually - and one that did not appeal or massage the national ego on a total scale. That Churchill did says a lot about his careful use of language, his posture, his stature and his ideals.
Psychology!
So, was it applied in the Battle of The Atlantic? I\'d hazard a guess and say yes. It was - by both sides. Fortunately, ours was based on national survival - not national expansionism.
Hope this does, Don!
Aye,
John</HTML>
Don Baker wrote:
-------------------------------
\"Psychology, I believe. Beat thine enemy - earn his respect.
It\\\'s my theory! \\\"
An interesting treatise on Celtic history and an interesting personal theory indeed John - and do your studies indicate it may have been applied in the Battle of the Atlantic?<<
My studies, Don, were absolutely nothing to do with either Celtic history or the Battle of The Atlantic! I am an ex-sailor ( served in both Royal and Merchant Navies ), a Welshman - hence the passion for the Romano-Celtic bit - and, as a qualified Social worker, Psychology was one of my subjects - both at core and chosen levels!
The \'Beat thine enemy - earn his respect\' school of thought is applicable. Hitler wanted to bring Britain to its knees, to force her into surrendering. That way was by sinking the vital shipping that kept Britain an island fortress. By cutting that link, he felt he could soon have the British where he wanted them - at the negotiating table.
Unfortunately he reckoned without the \'reverse\' psychology that applied at that time - and, I guess, still does. We have an arrogance, us Brits, that makes us bloody fighters when backed into a corner. Witness the Falklands War - we sent a fleet down the south Atlantic and gave the invading Argentinians something to think about! It\'s also called the island mentality.
During the Battle of The Atlantic, Hitler reckoned without the courage and tenacity of all of the seamen involved, without the \'pride\' and \'tradition\' of the Royal Navy - and without the sheer drive of Winston Churchill, who - more than anyone - brought together the British to fight what he knew to be the greatest threat to these islands since the Spanish Armada. The U-boat crews and Commanders were exceptional seamen and courageous fighters - but, towards the end, they were led by a madman whose idea of Naval superiority did not match that of either Raeder or Doenitz. had either of those been Fuhrer, we may have been looking at a different outcome!
A national conciousness - that state which made Britain hang in - could also be said to have been a \'national psychological\' state of being. By using words and skilled oratory, Winston Churchill touched the hearts and minds of everyone in these islands and made them stand as one. Russia had a similar conciousness. Still has, but in pockets nowadays.
Hitler - a charisamatic man himself - had the same skill, but did not apply it as calculatingly as Churchill did. We fought the Germans; Hitler wanted the total erasure of Jews, Gypsies, the sick and disabled,etc. The conquest of Europe and the smashing of Soviet Russia. An Aryan State with Aryan ideals. Too much in fighting and clinging to \'traditions\', to a blinkered mind set...etc.
A tall order actually - and one that did not appeal or massage the national ego on a total scale. That Churchill did says a lot about his careful use of language, his posture, his stature and his ideals.
Psychology!
So, was it applied in the Battle of The Atlantic? I\'d hazard a guess and say yes. It was - by both sides. Fortunately, ours was based on national survival - not national expansionism.
Hope this does, Don!
Aye,
John</HTML>
