General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: Wilhelm Gustloff Revisited
Posted by:
Yuri IL\'IN
()
Date: April 20, 2001 01:09PM
<HTML>Hi John,
we probably understand miscellaneous things when we speak about war crimes. From my point of view crimes are the given below examples
June 22, 1941 at 3 hours 45 mines (the war was not posted yet) not far from Swedish island Gotland 4 torpedo motorboats (German or Finnish ?) torpedoes Soviet steamer \"Gaysma\" and from machine guns fire of the people appeared in water.
August 17, 1942 German U-209 on the approach to Matochkin Shar has attacked on unarmed group of ships and has sunk by gun and machine gun fire two barge, tow steamer \"Komiles\" and killed the people, afloat in water. Total 305 men were lost.
July 27, 1943 German U-255 by a gun fire has sunk a civil scientific expedition vessel \"Academician Schokalsky\" and from a machine gun fired civilian personal on ice.
In 1942 on the Black sea by the German aircrafts was sunk hospital ship \"Gruzija\", which in full correspondence with international law has used marks a Red Cross and Red Halfmoon which were well visible from air.
In 1944 the small Norwegian settlement Svea on Spitsbergen was completely destroed by German U-boat. To destroy a settlement in Arctic same as to sentence of its inhabitants to sluggish painful death. Probably this crime was committed by crew of German U-305. On a site [uboat.net] where it seems everyone know about German U-boat about this tragic fact bashfully not talk. Though Iceland where from author of a site up to Spitsbergen is not so far.
The German U-boats till 1943 terrorized Russian North. They unpunishedly swam up to our winterings, burnt them, and the civil personnel either killed, or took away with itself. So all winterings in basin Batents and Karskoe seas were destroyed except one.
You have considered as a crime attack of the ship of the German naval fleet which carried a naval flag with a swastika. It was not a hospital ship. Gustloff was a personnel ship. The hospital ship in dark time of day should have after steaming lights and highlight by carry lights marks testifying about his fitting. These marks should be visible from apart. Wrongful usage of marks a Red Cross is gross military crime. On Gustloff all fires were extinguished as on any combat ship.
The passengers are be in peace time, and in war the sea - theatre of act of war, and any enemy vessel - ship of the opponent. Everyone, who has stepped on her side, knows, that can be attacked. Each passenger onboard Gustloff before an output in the sea have asked whom it\'s necessary to inform in case of his loss. Gustloff not a defenceless civil vessel, but military transport gone under a bull cover. It was the honest battle!.
Shortly before the end of war, in Crimea the meeting Roosevelt, Churchull and Stalin was held. To the first day of meeting breaking the taken accepted service of summons Churchull converted to a Stalin with the request to enclose a maximum of efforts to capture Danzig and to liquidate there school of underwater navigation. Churchull considered important to not give a possibility to be evacuated from Danzig already to prepared crews of submarines. The Stalin promised to help and has constrained the word.
Gustloff was a personnel ship of school of underwater navigation. Nobody could repute, that the German submariners will be hidden cowardly for spins of the women and children. Marinesko not only had the right to attack Gustloff, but was obliged it to make. Differently him would judge as the coward.
Marinesko which has destroyed about 1000 German submariners among which was about 100 commanders prepared for a service on boats of the newest models. Marinesko has made all that could for rendering assistance to the colleagues and allies which order battle for Atlantic. His contribution to this scrambling was great. The bust of Marinesko was established in Plymouth vice-versa of Naval museum in that time when in Russia about him knew few people. Marinesko was not awarded for the feat. A rank of the Hero of the Soviet Union give him the President Gorbachev in 1990 in 27 years after death of the brave Navy Officer. The public of Russia has supported for a long time waited for this and has supported solution of the President.
I could write about such horrors in time WW2 in comparison with which history with Gustloff will seem as a kind Christmas fairy tale, but I do not want to spoil nerves to myself and another.
Attempts to charge Russian in all sins is look unconvincing as contradict logic and historical facts.
Regards,
Yuri IL\'IN
Moscow Russia
</HTML>
we probably understand miscellaneous things when we speak about war crimes. From my point of view crimes are the given below examples
June 22, 1941 at 3 hours 45 mines (the war was not posted yet) not far from Swedish island Gotland 4 torpedo motorboats (German or Finnish ?) torpedoes Soviet steamer \"Gaysma\" and from machine guns fire of the people appeared in water.
August 17, 1942 German U-209 on the approach to Matochkin Shar has attacked on unarmed group of ships and has sunk by gun and machine gun fire two barge, tow steamer \"Komiles\" and killed the people, afloat in water. Total 305 men were lost.
July 27, 1943 German U-255 by a gun fire has sunk a civil scientific expedition vessel \"Academician Schokalsky\" and from a machine gun fired civilian personal on ice.
In 1942 on the Black sea by the German aircrafts was sunk hospital ship \"Gruzija\", which in full correspondence with international law has used marks a Red Cross and Red Halfmoon which were well visible from air.
In 1944 the small Norwegian settlement Svea on Spitsbergen was completely destroed by German U-boat. To destroy a settlement in Arctic same as to sentence of its inhabitants to sluggish painful death. Probably this crime was committed by crew of German U-305. On a site [uboat.net] where it seems everyone know about German U-boat about this tragic fact bashfully not talk. Though Iceland where from author of a site up to Spitsbergen is not so far.
The German U-boats till 1943 terrorized Russian North. They unpunishedly swam up to our winterings, burnt them, and the civil personnel either killed, or took away with itself. So all winterings in basin Batents and Karskoe seas were destroyed except one.
You have considered as a crime attack of the ship of the German naval fleet which carried a naval flag with a swastika. It was not a hospital ship. Gustloff was a personnel ship. The hospital ship in dark time of day should have after steaming lights and highlight by carry lights marks testifying about his fitting. These marks should be visible from apart. Wrongful usage of marks a Red Cross is gross military crime. On Gustloff all fires were extinguished as on any combat ship.
The passengers are be in peace time, and in war the sea - theatre of act of war, and any enemy vessel - ship of the opponent. Everyone, who has stepped on her side, knows, that can be attacked. Each passenger onboard Gustloff before an output in the sea have asked whom it\'s necessary to inform in case of his loss. Gustloff not a defenceless civil vessel, but military transport gone under a bull cover. It was the honest battle!.
Shortly before the end of war, in Crimea the meeting Roosevelt, Churchull and Stalin was held. To the first day of meeting breaking the taken accepted service of summons Churchull converted to a Stalin with the request to enclose a maximum of efforts to capture Danzig and to liquidate there school of underwater navigation. Churchull considered important to not give a possibility to be evacuated from Danzig already to prepared crews of submarines. The Stalin promised to help and has constrained the word.
Gustloff was a personnel ship of school of underwater navigation. Nobody could repute, that the German submariners will be hidden cowardly for spins of the women and children. Marinesko not only had the right to attack Gustloff, but was obliged it to make. Differently him would judge as the coward.
Marinesko which has destroyed about 1000 German submariners among which was about 100 commanders prepared for a service on boats of the newest models. Marinesko has made all that could for rendering assistance to the colleagues and allies which order battle for Atlantic. His contribution to this scrambling was great. The bust of Marinesko was established in Plymouth vice-versa of Naval museum in that time when in Russia about him knew few people. Marinesko was not awarded for the feat. A rank of the Hero of the Soviet Union give him the President Gorbachev in 1990 in 27 years after death of the brave Navy Officer. The public of Russia has supported for a long time waited for this and has supported solution of the President.
I could write about such horrors in time WW2 in comparison with which history with Gustloff will seem as a kind Christmas fairy tale, but I do not want to spoil nerves to myself and another.
Attempts to charge Russian in all sins is look unconvincing as contradict logic and historical facts.
Regards,
Yuri IL\'IN
Moscow Russia
</HTML>
