General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: Wilhelm Gustloff Revisited
Posted by:
John Griffiths
()
Date: April 20, 2001 05:01PM
<HTML>Rainer and all others,
>>as usual, our friend Yuri is giving us the straight old propaganda line of the now extinct SU. Please note in his examples Uboats were \\\"killing\\\" civilians and Marinesco was \\\"destroying\\\" a 1000 Uboat men. (Never mind the other 7 to 8000).<<
Eeek...I don\'t want to be a part of another flame war but, as usual Rainer, you are right. I latched on to Yuri\'s tale and saw the propoganda in it. Seems memory runs long and deep.
>>1) marked as a hospital ship, she was carrying relatively few wounded.
2) She sailed without navlights
3) She carried troops (Gotenhafen U-School Flott.)
4) Thus Red Cross markings were contrary to Geneva Convention, which actually irrelevant since SU not signatory.
5) Unescorted at time of torpedoing, she was escorted part of the way.
As tragic as the heavy loss of life was (only exceeded by the horrendeous losses of the CAP ARCONA a few months later), I must conclude her to be a legit target and refuse to demonize t....<<
Again, I bow to your superior knowledge - and personal experience. The account I have on the WG says it differently and it was where I pulled my own piece from. I quote:
...was assigned to the German Navy to serve as a troop and hospital ship in the Baltic Sea....At the beginning of 1945 the WG was acting, as were other ships, as a rescue ship in the massive evacuation of troops and refugees....beseiged by the rapidly advancing Red Army....At noon on January 30th 1945....crammed with 6000 plus refugees and wounded servicemen....was struck by 3 torpedoes....and sank almost immediately...exact death toll unknown....worst recorded loss of life in maritime history...
If she was armed I would respectfully suggest she was because of the air raids that would have been happening over Gdynia. The Soviets were not known for respecting anything belonging to the \'enemy\'.
As for the Soviet Union not being a signatory to the Red Cross, that blows Yuri\'s alleged atack on a Soviet marked hospital ship by a U-boat out of the water!
Whatever way we look at this, I believe that the WG was attacked as an \'easy\' target - no escorts mainly - and to kill such a number of the \'enemy\' would certainly have had high propoganda value at the time.
Will we ever know the truth? I doubt it. There is so much \'covered up\' to ensure that the real truth is never known - for various political reasons best known to our masters one and all.
I agree with most of what you said Rainer but I think that the Soviets would have known about her role as a \'rescue\' ship and that her course and speed would have been well known via the intelligence network of spies working in Gdynia at the time. I think that I side with a few on here who say it was an atrocity - Germany had already lost the war by that stage and the Red Army must have been drunk on retribution for the atrocities committed by the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe in Russia. She was, unfortunately, a casualty of politics and revenge.
It was, I maintain, a propoganda sinking.
Whatever, I trust this post doesn\'t escalate into a flame war - please!
Also, Rainer? I now a bit more about you and for that I am grateful. Your mother was wise before the event.
Aye,
John</HTML>
>>as usual, our friend Yuri is giving us the straight old propaganda line of the now extinct SU. Please note in his examples Uboats were \\\"killing\\\" civilians and Marinesco was \\\"destroying\\\" a 1000 Uboat men. (Never mind the other 7 to 8000).<<
Eeek...I don\'t want to be a part of another flame war but, as usual Rainer, you are right. I latched on to Yuri\'s tale and saw the propoganda in it. Seems memory runs long and deep.
>>1) marked as a hospital ship, she was carrying relatively few wounded.
2) She sailed without navlights
3) She carried troops (Gotenhafen U-School Flott.)
4) Thus Red Cross markings were contrary to Geneva Convention, which actually irrelevant since SU not signatory.
5) Unescorted at time of torpedoing, she was escorted part of the way.
As tragic as the heavy loss of life was (only exceeded by the horrendeous losses of the CAP ARCONA a few months later), I must conclude her to be a legit target and refuse to demonize t....<<
Again, I bow to your superior knowledge - and personal experience. The account I have on the WG says it differently and it was where I pulled my own piece from. I quote:
...was assigned to the German Navy to serve as a troop and hospital ship in the Baltic Sea....At the beginning of 1945 the WG was acting, as were other ships, as a rescue ship in the massive evacuation of troops and refugees....beseiged by the rapidly advancing Red Army....At noon on January 30th 1945....crammed with 6000 plus refugees and wounded servicemen....was struck by 3 torpedoes....and sank almost immediately...exact death toll unknown....worst recorded loss of life in maritime history...
If she was armed I would respectfully suggest she was because of the air raids that would have been happening over Gdynia. The Soviets were not known for respecting anything belonging to the \'enemy\'.
As for the Soviet Union not being a signatory to the Red Cross, that blows Yuri\'s alleged atack on a Soviet marked hospital ship by a U-boat out of the water!
Whatever way we look at this, I believe that the WG was attacked as an \'easy\' target - no escorts mainly - and to kill such a number of the \'enemy\' would certainly have had high propoganda value at the time.
Will we ever know the truth? I doubt it. There is so much \'covered up\' to ensure that the real truth is never known - for various political reasons best known to our masters one and all.
I agree with most of what you said Rainer but I think that the Soviets would have known about her role as a \'rescue\' ship and that her course and speed would have been well known via the intelligence network of spies working in Gdynia at the time. I think that I side with a few on here who say it was an atrocity - Germany had already lost the war by that stage and the Red Army must have been drunk on retribution for the atrocities committed by the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe in Russia. She was, unfortunately, a casualty of politics and revenge.
It was, I maintain, a propoganda sinking.
Whatever, I trust this post doesn\'t escalate into a flame war - please!
Also, Rainer? I now a bit more about you and for that I am grateful. Your mother was wise before the event.
Aye,
John</HTML>
