General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: Penants for neutrals sunk
Posted by:
Rich Mickle
()
Date: April 26, 2001 07:53PM
<HTML>This is a good question. Often when looking at the \"events on this day\" portion of the site, I have wondered why so many Swedish ships were on the thing. I have even noticed on occasion that some of the Swedish ships are listed as occupying places in Allied convoy formations.
Was this to avoid having to sail the seas alone? I would think a neutral running with lights on a fairly straight course wouldn\'t care about that. I would think sailing in convoy under escort would be a dead giveaway that this ship was up to something not exactly in Germany\'s or neutral Sweden\'s interests.
By contrast, I have noted that Turkish merchant ships tended to sail alone, running lights on and refused to join convoys when offered the option. They suffered few losses.
I think the cases of Brazil and Mexico mentioned previously are more easily explained however. Both of these countries were decidedly pro-Allied (Mexico, rather militantly so) and were avid supporters of the Neutrality Zone and Patrol and, like the US, not really when it came to British ships. The US was very interested in Brazil for use in anti-submarine patrols and managed to secure Brazilian permission for use of air bases before the US entry into the war. It should be noted too, that the US State Department and military really didn\'t understand where Brazil stood during the initial phase of the war. This was due to some pro-fascist rhetoric eminating from a few of the higher ups in the Brazilian Army and Air Force (not the Navy noteably). The removal of many of these officers and a pro-Allied foreign minister, Allied propaganda, and the loss of a number of ships all made the Brazilians rather unhappy with the Axis.
Interesting fact, he US Army and Marines actually had plans drawn up for invading and seizing key ports and airfields in Brazil and even staged a rehearsal of the plan--that\'s how much we wanted their bases.
But Swedish ships in Allied convoys?????
I read an interesting quote by a Swedish diplomat soon after the US entered the war. He was asked what side Sweden wanted to win the war and responded, \"if the Germans win, we are aryans...if the Allies win, we are democrats.\"
Regards,
Rich</HTML>
Was this to avoid having to sail the seas alone? I would think a neutral running with lights on a fairly straight course wouldn\'t care about that. I would think sailing in convoy under escort would be a dead giveaway that this ship was up to something not exactly in Germany\'s or neutral Sweden\'s interests.
By contrast, I have noted that Turkish merchant ships tended to sail alone, running lights on and refused to join convoys when offered the option. They suffered few losses.
I think the cases of Brazil and Mexico mentioned previously are more easily explained however. Both of these countries were decidedly pro-Allied (Mexico, rather militantly so) and were avid supporters of the Neutrality Zone and Patrol and, like the US, not really when it came to British ships. The US was very interested in Brazil for use in anti-submarine patrols and managed to secure Brazilian permission for use of air bases before the US entry into the war. It should be noted too, that the US State Department and military really didn\'t understand where Brazil stood during the initial phase of the war. This was due to some pro-fascist rhetoric eminating from a few of the higher ups in the Brazilian Army and Air Force (not the Navy noteably). The removal of many of these officers and a pro-Allied foreign minister, Allied propaganda, and the loss of a number of ships all made the Brazilians rather unhappy with the Axis.
Interesting fact, he US Army and Marines actually had plans drawn up for invading and seizing key ports and airfields in Brazil and even staged a rehearsal of the plan--that\'s how much we wanted their bases.
But Swedish ships in Allied convoys?????
I read an interesting quote by a Swedish diplomat soon after the US entered the war. He was asked what side Sweden wanted to win the war and responded, \"if the Germans win, we are aryans...if the Allies win, we are democrats.\"
Regards,
Rich</HTML>
| Subject | Written By | Posted |
|---|---|---|
Penants for neutrals sunk
|
Dave McQueen | 04/24/2001 10:33AM |
|
RE: Penants for neutrals sunk
|
Ken Dunn | 04/24/2001 12:19PM |
|
RE: Penants for neutrals sunk
|
Dave McQueen | 04/24/2001 12:59PM |
|
RE: Penants for neutrals sunk
|
J.T. McDaniel | 04/24/2001 05:17PM |
|
RE: Penants for neutrals sunk
|
Robin Edwards | 04/26/2001 01:27AM |
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RE: Penants for neutrals sunk
|
Ken Dunn | 04/26/2001 10:55AM |
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RE: Penants for neutrals sunk
|
Rich Mickle | 04/26/2001 07:53PM |
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RE: Penants for neutrals sunk
|
Walter M. | 04/30/2001 08:17PM |