General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: Definitions
Posted by:
John Griffiths
()
Date: April 28, 2001 12:19PM
<HTML>Hi Superkraut,
>>We are getting into another one of these \\\"the glass is half empty vs. the glass is half full discussions\\\". The U-boats certainly had a significant effect on the western front, but they were never decisive. Exactly how significant that effect was can be argued for a long time.<<
I know full well about the length some conversation - discussion - debates can go on for - just look at what yuri and I get up to...! :-)
\\>>That is an exaggeration, but it depends on how you define \\\"to her knees\\\". The U-boats were never close to sinking all shipping into Britain, so the issue becomes what does one ship with the available cargo space. There was always going to be enough so that Britain would not literally starve, but raw materials for industry and materiel to support overseas wars was another matter. If you mean forced to seek terms for a negotiated peace with \\\"to her knees\\\", they you may be right.<<
I meant the latter. The U-boats decimated the convoys during the early stages of the war - the happy times - and, as such, were in a position to quite literally force Britain to its knees. By controlling the sea lanes, the Kriegsmarine would have been able to push Britain to a position whereby \'attractive terms\' could have been negotiated. We are always led to believe here that the British depended heavily on her merchant fleet for the import of food and war materiel. As such, without the combination of the Battle of The Atlantic turning point, the Liberty Ship and the entry of the US into the war, we very nearly got our asses smacked!
>> If you mean invasion or unconditional surrender, then you are well off, since Germany did not have the assets to impose such an outcome.<<
No, did not mean this. That would have come if the U-boats had got the upper hand during the early stages of the war at sea. As for invasion, no. That was not really an option either.
As to the % of RN ships sunk. That I don\'t know! What I do know is that situations such as the Malta Convoys proved the superiority of the aircraft to make a terrible mark on shipping. Had the Luftwaffe and the U-boats combined - during the earlier stages of the war at least - to grind Britain down rather than Russia then yes, we would have been well and truly forced to look at unattractive conditions.
You\'re right. It is \'optomist-pessemist\'!
Thanks for the post, BTW.
Aye,
John</HTML>
>>We are getting into another one of these \\\"the glass is half empty vs. the glass is half full discussions\\\". The U-boats certainly had a significant effect on the western front, but they were never decisive. Exactly how significant that effect was can be argued for a long time.<<
I know full well about the length some conversation - discussion - debates can go on for - just look at what yuri and I get up to...! :-)
\\>>That is an exaggeration, but it depends on how you define \\\"to her knees\\\". The U-boats were never close to sinking all shipping into Britain, so the issue becomes what does one ship with the available cargo space. There was always going to be enough so that Britain would not literally starve, but raw materials for industry and materiel to support overseas wars was another matter. If you mean forced to seek terms for a negotiated peace with \\\"to her knees\\\", they you may be right.<<
I meant the latter. The U-boats decimated the convoys during the early stages of the war - the happy times - and, as such, were in a position to quite literally force Britain to its knees. By controlling the sea lanes, the Kriegsmarine would have been able to push Britain to a position whereby \'attractive terms\' could have been negotiated. We are always led to believe here that the British depended heavily on her merchant fleet for the import of food and war materiel. As such, without the combination of the Battle of The Atlantic turning point, the Liberty Ship and the entry of the US into the war, we very nearly got our asses smacked!
>> If you mean invasion or unconditional surrender, then you are well off, since Germany did not have the assets to impose such an outcome.<<
No, did not mean this. That would have come if the U-boats had got the upper hand during the early stages of the war at sea. As for invasion, no. That was not really an option either.
As to the % of RN ships sunk. That I don\'t know! What I do know is that situations such as the Malta Convoys proved the superiority of the aircraft to make a terrible mark on shipping. Had the Luftwaffe and the U-boats combined - during the earlier stages of the war at least - to grind Britain down rather than Russia then yes, we would have been well and truly forced to look at unattractive conditions.
You\'re right. It is \'optomist-pessemist\'!
Thanks for the post, BTW.
Aye,
John</HTML>
