General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: With all due respect John
Posted by:
John Griffiths
()
Date: June 07, 2001 04:10PM
<HTML> Hi dave,
>>Horses for courses and everyone is different.Some will stop and some won\\\\\\\'t and some will even continue to kill their helpless enemy.<<
Yes, that\'s about true. However, killing the enemy is what you are there for. Humanity takes second place to duty - as history as shown on many, many occasions.
>>You say i would\\\\\\\'nt get a command? Maybe\\\\\\\'but it seems then half the allied escort commanders in ww2 would have had no commands or even U-Boat commanders like Hartenstein<<
Again, true. The desperate shortage of manpower ensured that many \'unfit\' CO\'s served - on all sides - during need. I was speaking based on my experience, where command of a ship of the line is actually very, very hard to get - even in crisis.
>>I thought nazi Germany was crushed to make the world a better place and i think my example of humanity would be what i would want the victors to be like and not yours.<<
Dave, Dave! I am not saying that! What I am saying is that humanity is a resource; its value has to be judged against the larger sum! I would love to be able to say that if I was given a choice during my own war I would not have continued to fire on the figures ashore - they had been blasted to hell and back anyway -but I did. I only stopped when I was told to and started again when I was told to. There was no choice nor personal interest in that. It was an order - and my job was to obey, without question, the orders given to me.
>>Even last night i was reading an account of an escort group who spared no expense or effort to rescue a U-boat crew who had just torpedoed and sunk one of their number.I suppose you would have sacked every captain in the escort group?<<
No - but I would have carpeted any commander who risked his vessel and crew when there was a threat evident. Rules in war often mean the difference between life and death.
>>I cannot say what i would be like in the heat of battle and thats a fair comment\\\\\\\'but i know the difference between right and wrong and i don\\\\\\\'t think that would change.The report of a supposed threat\\\\\\\'would not dissuade me...<<
No-one can ever say, with any accuracy, how they will react in combat. Knowing right and wrong has no place in war. Aboard ship, you are a link in a huge machine - and you do your job or the whole thing falls apart. That falling apart hurts others. That\'s military life. How many soldiers in any war regret carrying out the orders they were given?
Not a pop at you, Dave - just a point of view.
As you say, it\'s all academic.
Aye,
John</HTML>
>>Horses for courses and everyone is different.Some will stop and some won\\\\\\\'t and some will even continue to kill their helpless enemy.<<
Yes, that\'s about true. However, killing the enemy is what you are there for. Humanity takes second place to duty - as history as shown on many, many occasions.
>>You say i would\\\\\\\'nt get a command? Maybe\\\\\\\'but it seems then half the allied escort commanders in ww2 would have had no commands or even U-Boat commanders like Hartenstein<<
Again, true. The desperate shortage of manpower ensured that many \'unfit\' CO\'s served - on all sides - during need. I was speaking based on my experience, where command of a ship of the line is actually very, very hard to get - even in crisis.
>>I thought nazi Germany was crushed to make the world a better place and i think my example of humanity would be what i would want the victors to be like and not yours.<<
Dave, Dave! I am not saying that! What I am saying is that humanity is a resource; its value has to be judged against the larger sum! I would love to be able to say that if I was given a choice during my own war I would not have continued to fire on the figures ashore - they had been blasted to hell and back anyway -but I did. I only stopped when I was told to and started again when I was told to. There was no choice nor personal interest in that. It was an order - and my job was to obey, without question, the orders given to me.
>>Even last night i was reading an account of an escort group who spared no expense or effort to rescue a U-boat crew who had just torpedoed and sunk one of their number.I suppose you would have sacked every captain in the escort group?<<
No - but I would have carpeted any commander who risked his vessel and crew when there was a threat evident. Rules in war often mean the difference between life and death.
>>I cannot say what i would be like in the heat of battle and thats a fair comment\\\\\\\'but i know the difference between right and wrong and i don\\\\\\\'t think that would change.The report of a supposed threat\\\\\\\'would not dissuade me...<<
No-one can ever say, with any accuracy, how they will react in combat. Knowing right and wrong has no place in war. Aboard ship, you are a link in a huge machine - and you do your job or the whole thing falls apart. That falling apart hurts others. That\'s military life. How many soldiers in any war regret carrying out the orders they were given?
Not a pop at you, Dave - just a point of view.
As you say, it\'s all academic.
Aye,
John</HTML>
| Subject | Written By | Posted |
|---|---|---|
crew of U-470 abandoned
|
Dave McQueen | 06/05/2001 08:12PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned
|
Brian Corijn | 06/05/2001 09:03PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned
|
Dave McQueen | 06/06/2001 07:04AM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned
|
Steve Cooper | 06/06/2001 12:27PM |
|
RE: USS Juneau
|
Rainer Bruns | 06/06/2001 01:03PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned
|
becorijn@zeelandnet.nl | 06/06/2001 01:14PM |
|
USS Juneau
|
Michael Lowrey | 06/06/2001 02:41PM |
|
RE: USS Juneau
|
Michael Lowrey | 06/06/2001 03:22PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned
|
Rainer Bruns | 06/06/2001 01:11PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned
|
Steve | 06/06/2001 01:29PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned -Dave
|
John Griffiths | 06/06/2001 05:18PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned -Dave
|
Ted Agar | 06/06/2001 07:29PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned -Dave
|
Tom Iwanski | 06/06/2001 07:59PM |
|
in defense of Mush
|
kurt | 06/06/2001 08:55PM |
|
RE: in defense of Mush
|
Steve Cooper | 06/07/2001 01:27PM |
|
Mushs first wahoos third
|
kurt | 06/07/2001 03:21PM |
|
RE: in defense of Eck
|
Tim | 06/08/2001 01:44AM |
|
Eck knew he was killing survivors
|
kurt | 06/08/2001 05:05PM |
|
With all due respect John
|
Dave McQueen | 06/07/2001 06:44AM |
|
RE: With all due respect John
|
John Griffiths | 06/07/2001 04:10PM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned
|
Steve | 06/06/2001 12:19AM |
|
RE: crew of U-470 abandoned
|
Joe Brennan | 06/06/2001 06:00AM |
|
RE: other example
|
Rainer Bruns | 06/06/2001 01:06PM |
|
realities of war
|
kurt | 06/06/2001 03:41PM |
|
RE: realities of war
|
Walt | 06/06/2001 10:08PM |
|
RE: realities of war
|
Steve | 06/07/2001 10:02AM |
|
RE: wrong spot, defending Mush
|
Rainer Bruns | 06/06/2001 11:31PM |
|
Mush and Eck
|
kurt | 06/07/2001 04:01AM |
|
RE: Mush and Eck
|
Rainer Bruns | 06/07/2001 11:32AM |
|
RE: Mush and Eck
|
Walt | 06/07/2001 12:04PM |
|
RE: Mush and Eck
|
Steve Cooper | 06/07/2001 01:21PM |
|
RE: Mush and Eck
|
Walt | 06/07/2001 04:59PM |
|
RE: Mush and Eck
|
Tim | 06/08/2001 02:06AM |
|
RE: Mush and Eck
|
Rainer Bruns | 06/07/2001 03:43PM |
|
RE: Mush and Eck
|
Walt | 06/07/2001 04:57PM |
|
different opinions
|
kurt | 06/07/2001 03:56PM |
|
RE: different opinions
|
Rich Mickle | 06/07/2001 11:03PM |
|
RE: different opinions
|
Siri Lawson | 06/08/2001 03:56AM |
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RE: different opinions
|
Rich Mickle | 06/08/2001 08:51AM |