General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: War Crimes perpetrated by Allied submarines in
Posted by:
Yuri IL\'IN
()
Date: June 16, 2001 07:46PM
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Tim wrote:
-------------------------------
Hi, Yuri. I do not think that the comment was made as an insult to the Soviets or Russians.
I do not think so too. I am interested with the concrete data about submarines or about Navy. The emotions are not so interest for me as I am not the psychiatrist and not the Daddy Roman
>It is widely known that the Great Patriotic War was fought quite
>savagely by both sides. Right or wrong, it was so.
I completely agree with you. This is correct.
>The thing is that these attrocities were started by a small
>number of zealots on both sides,
Let\'s assume, that in your rich and pleasant house somebody come and tell, that he likes to live in your house and likes to sleep with your wife, and you are unworthy that to live in this house, and you are unworthy to live at all. In such case the combat can begint. During combat both parties can show cruelty. Even if you will kill the opponent, the criminal court will justify you as you defend your property your live and your living style.
>What term would be correct to use?
>Soviet? Or Russian? I would think Russian, for Soviet was the
>political power, not the people... who have always been Russian.
Really it is not a so simple question. It is best to consider a concrete life example.
On <A href=\"[193.233.4.143]\"> [193.233.4.143]; you can see fine photos which Ralph Langley (thank you, Ralph!) has made at the Russian veterans WW2 Victory Day May 9, 2001, Los Angeles, USA.
I do not think, that it was pleasant to all veterans to see their flag of the USSR. Probably some of these people had difficult relations with the Soviet Power.
If Ralph would tell them: \"The Russian soldiers bravely combated and have gained Victory\", these veterans will agree.
If I shall tell them these words, they can take offence. They will answer to me: \"Look at our awards and then you will probable understand, that not only Russian have gained Victory in that war!\".
In the Soviet Union each man has not only First and Last Name, but some more identification signs including ethnos. Big part of these veterans in the documents has recorded, that they are Jews. They differ a little from Russian and have not almost anything common with those Jews which live in Israel. But they undestend, that I know the records which ware in their documents.
If I shall tell to these people, that the Soviet soldiers bravely combated and have gained Victory, veterans will agree with me. Even if a flag of the USSR calls not the best feelings.
As in a joke about the British zone of occupation in Germany. In one of subdivisions on a door of a toilet have written \"Only for the English soldier\". One sergeant has added \"Ã nd for the Scottish soldier too\".
In the modern Russia an ethnos is private think of each man. The people of Rus-sian ethnos they call Russian. Russian respecting feelings of other ethnos call the citizens of Russia not Russian bat use another word. I do not know equiva-lents of this word in other languages.
Conclusion is so. If you are not the inhabitant of Russia, you can use the word \"Russian\". If you do not assign to the word \"Soviet\" special political sense and use it only for designation of definite historical epoch, you can use this word as well too.
Regards,
Yuri IL\'IN
Moscow Russia
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Tim wrote:
-------------------------------
Hi, Yuri. I do not think that the comment was made as an insult to the Soviets or Russians.
I do not think so too. I am interested with the concrete data about submarines or about Navy. The emotions are not so interest for me as I am not the psychiatrist and not the Daddy Roman
>It is widely known that the Great Patriotic War was fought quite
>savagely by both sides. Right or wrong, it was so.
I completely agree with you. This is correct.
>The thing is that these attrocities were started by a small
>number of zealots on both sides,
Let\'s assume, that in your rich and pleasant house somebody come and tell, that he likes to live in your house and likes to sleep with your wife, and you are unworthy that to live in this house, and you are unworthy to live at all. In such case the combat can begint. During combat both parties can show cruelty. Even if you will kill the opponent, the criminal court will justify you as you defend your property your live and your living style.
>What term would be correct to use?
>Soviet? Or Russian? I would think Russian, for Soviet was the
>political power, not the people... who have always been Russian.
Really it is not a so simple question. It is best to consider a concrete life example.
On <A href=\"[193.233.4.143]\"> [193.233.4.143]; you can see fine photos which Ralph Langley (thank you, Ralph!) has made at the Russian veterans WW2 Victory Day May 9, 2001, Los Angeles, USA.
I do not think, that it was pleasant to all veterans to see their flag of the USSR. Probably some of these people had difficult relations with the Soviet Power.
If Ralph would tell them: \"The Russian soldiers bravely combated and have gained Victory\", these veterans will agree.
If I shall tell them these words, they can take offence. They will answer to me: \"Look at our awards and then you will probable understand, that not only Russian have gained Victory in that war!\".
In the Soviet Union each man has not only First and Last Name, but some more identification signs including ethnos. Big part of these veterans in the documents has recorded, that they are Jews. They differ a little from Russian and have not almost anything common with those Jews which live in Israel. But they undestend, that I know the records which ware in their documents.
If I shall tell to these people, that the Soviet soldiers bravely combated and have gained Victory, veterans will agree with me. Even if a flag of the USSR calls not the best feelings.
As in a joke about the British zone of occupation in Germany. In one of subdivisions on a door of a toilet have written \"Only for the English soldier\". One sergeant has added \"Ã nd for the Scottish soldier too\".
In the modern Russia an ethnos is private think of each man. The people of Rus-sian ethnos they call Russian. Russian respecting feelings of other ethnos call the citizens of Russia not Russian bat use another word. I do not know equiva-lents of this word in other languages.
Conclusion is so. If you are not the inhabitant of Russia, you can use the word \"Russian\". If you do not assign to the word \"Soviet\" special political sense and use it only for designation of definite historical epoch, you can use this word as well too.
Regards,
Yuri IL\'IN
Moscow Russia
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