General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: U-534 Beyond doubt - response.
Posted by:
John Griffiths
()
Date: July 13, 2001 04:57PM
<HTML>Joe, Jim and other detractors,
U-534 was raised because someone thought she carried booty in gold and other artefacts. That equals greed. Then, that\'s nothing new. However, Joe seems to be the biggest detractor of even bothering his ass to try - how could future generations ever know what a U-boat looks like if there is no trying? Was this the same attitude that renovated ships and aircraft to celebrate the part the US played in conflict? Germany gave up on renovating her U-boats?
I don\'t think so!
>>It is my belief U-534 is beyond any restoration plan ..the British know it without doubt! The boat has been too long in sea water to be saved, because her steel/hull is very heavy in rust flakes. <<
You know very little about corrosion and oxidation! U-534 lay in fresh water - check your history! Had she have been in sea water, there would be less left now than there is.
The British do not know it! U-534 is not that well advertised to be known to many - apart from those with an interest in maritime history. Even many on Merseyside do not know about her. During the Liverpool \'Battle of The Atlantic\' exhibition I took my children all over the port of Liverpool and to the various exhibitions - no mention of U-534 and that was two years ago.
>>It will be an enourmous job to put this U-boat back into shape, as most of it is scrape metal anyway<<
Like it was to re-assemble Enigma machines? To renovate WW2 aircraft wrecks and restore them to flying condition? To renovate a rescued classic car from a breakers yard?
>>but is it really WORTH IT..? <<
To honour the memory of the dead on both sides? Without doubt, yes it is! So future generations can see what the allied seamen sailing out of a port like Liverpool came up against when they crossed the Atlantic? Again, yes.
>>I do think U-995 or U-505 are better U-boats for a restoration plan, which will cost a lot less, because these boats is still in good shape. <<
They\'re already restored! However, the British have a poor record of restoration in general and let\'s not forget - U-534 is a German boat! Germany lost - we won. That\'s part of the arrogant culture that would need to be broken down to get something done - but not from the Government! Money for restoration would either have to be earned via private sources or via The National Lottery Heritage Fund. It would also require volunteers dedicated to restoring the boat to a condition that was acceptable and historically accurate. To do that means dismantling various bits - thankfully, there is enough documentation left to be able to do just that.
>>Why are you guys talking about a multi-million dollar restore project?? The history is in the way it sits right now. All that is needed is for it to be stablized, paint etc to keep it from wasting away. I think the crime is putting this thing back together like it just rolled off into the harbor.<<
Why? Because the UK has only a small amount of restored vessels to represent the maritime war. The Battle of The Atlantic is poorly recalled. Even HMS \'Cavalier\' is not accurate in that she has been restored - but not in her wartime configuration. Only HMS Belfast is as original.
A preserved U-boat - a historical monument to the desperate battle fought for the survival of the nation - is something we should have. We have restored and flying Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51D\'s...why not a U-boat?
>>This war grave crap is for the birds. Those men need to be raised and buried on German soil. Let me ask you when you die, Do you want your body lost a sea for FOREVER, what would your family want?<<
No, war graves are not crap. How offensive and insensitive of you to say so. Many families have closure knowing where their next of kin lie and - peculiar though it may sound to you - knowing they lie near to where they fell in service is also comforting.
As an ex-seaman, the thought crossed my my mind many times as to whether my family would want my body back. In conversation with my mother she always said one thing:
If I know where you are, I\'ll be happy, even if I can\'t have you back.
Having served in the Royal and Merchant Navies, served as part of a lifeboat crew, been born and bred in a seaport - and known quite a few friends, some relations and other townsfolk who have gone to sea and never returned, I\'d just say that their grave is the element they served on, for country or for gain, and that - for many families - is enough.
Having said that, I lost an uncle in a fishing accident off Aberdeen in \'87 and his body was not recovered for six weeks. When it was eventually recovered, and brought home, the sight of his coffin gave my aunt a heart attack and his brother some trauma - there was the final proof that he was dead. Later, it was felt by the family that his body would have been better not recovered....
Mortals are fragile but the memory lives on.
Aye,
John</HTML>
U-534 was raised because someone thought she carried booty in gold and other artefacts. That equals greed. Then, that\'s nothing new. However, Joe seems to be the biggest detractor of even bothering his ass to try - how could future generations ever know what a U-boat looks like if there is no trying? Was this the same attitude that renovated ships and aircraft to celebrate the part the US played in conflict? Germany gave up on renovating her U-boats?
I don\'t think so!
>>It is my belief U-534 is beyond any restoration plan ..the British know it without doubt! The boat has been too long in sea water to be saved, because her steel/hull is very heavy in rust flakes. <<
You know very little about corrosion and oxidation! U-534 lay in fresh water - check your history! Had she have been in sea water, there would be less left now than there is.
The British do not know it! U-534 is not that well advertised to be known to many - apart from those with an interest in maritime history. Even many on Merseyside do not know about her. During the Liverpool \'Battle of The Atlantic\' exhibition I took my children all over the port of Liverpool and to the various exhibitions - no mention of U-534 and that was two years ago.
>>It will be an enourmous job to put this U-boat back into shape, as most of it is scrape metal anyway<<
Like it was to re-assemble Enigma machines? To renovate WW2 aircraft wrecks and restore them to flying condition? To renovate a rescued classic car from a breakers yard?
>>but is it really WORTH IT..? <<
To honour the memory of the dead on both sides? Without doubt, yes it is! So future generations can see what the allied seamen sailing out of a port like Liverpool came up against when they crossed the Atlantic? Again, yes.
>>I do think U-995 or U-505 are better U-boats for a restoration plan, which will cost a lot less, because these boats is still in good shape. <<
They\'re already restored! However, the British have a poor record of restoration in general and let\'s not forget - U-534 is a German boat! Germany lost - we won. That\'s part of the arrogant culture that would need to be broken down to get something done - but not from the Government! Money for restoration would either have to be earned via private sources or via The National Lottery Heritage Fund. It would also require volunteers dedicated to restoring the boat to a condition that was acceptable and historically accurate. To do that means dismantling various bits - thankfully, there is enough documentation left to be able to do just that.
>>Why are you guys talking about a multi-million dollar restore project?? The history is in the way it sits right now. All that is needed is for it to be stablized, paint etc to keep it from wasting away. I think the crime is putting this thing back together like it just rolled off into the harbor.<<
Why? Because the UK has only a small amount of restored vessels to represent the maritime war. The Battle of The Atlantic is poorly recalled. Even HMS \'Cavalier\' is not accurate in that she has been restored - but not in her wartime configuration. Only HMS Belfast is as original.
A preserved U-boat - a historical monument to the desperate battle fought for the survival of the nation - is something we should have. We have restored and flying Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51D\'s...why not a U-boat?
>>This war grave crap is for the birds. Those men need to be raised and buried on German soil. Let me ask you when you die, Do you want your body lost a sea for FOREVER, what would your family want?<<
No, war graves are not crap. How offensive and insensitive of you to say so. Many families have closure knowing where their next of kin lie and - peculiar though it may sound to you - knowing they lie near to where they fell in service is also comforting.
As an ex-seaman, the thought crossed my my mind many times as to whether my family would want my body back. In conversation with my mother she always said one thing:
If I know where you are, I\'ll be happy, even if I can\'t have you back.
Having served in the Royal and Merchant Navies, served as part of a lifeboat crew, been born and bred in a seaport - and known quite a few friends, some relations and other townsfolk who have gone to sea and never returned, I\'d just say that their grave is the element they served on, for country or for gain, and that - for many families - is enough.
Having said that, I lost an uncle in a fishing accident off Aberdeen in \'87 and his body was not recovered for six weeks. When it was eventually recovered, and brought home, the sight of his coffin gave my aunt a heart attack and his brother some trauma - there was the final proof that he was dead. Later, it was felt by the family that his body would have been better not recovered....
Mortals are fragile but the memory lives on.
Aye,
John</HTML>
