General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
Re: Is this an attack on U-106 on 01/08/1943?
Posted by:
Lorenzo59
()
Date: June 13, 2015 04:28AM
Thanks John. Ive been toying with the idea that X/59 attacked U-383 after she was crippled by V/228 at 2002 with 7 DCs. Position of V/228 attack is noted as 47.24N 12.10.W and BF4453... Position of X/59 attack is 47.24N 12.12W. Last signal from U-383 is noted by various sources as either 2130 or 2137... BDU receiving an initial report of attack at 2009...
Although the 228 ORB report of the attack by V/228, and the subsequent Coastal review gives the impression that the crew are abandoning ship (six men seen jumping into the water) it appears that she survived atleast until 2130-2137 (time of last signal). The six men overboard being the gunners and those on the C/T when U-383 was attacked by DC/s from V/228.
Part of the Coastal review of "V"s attack.
"The depth charges straddled the target just abaft the conning tower and the U-Boat was completely enveloped in spray. When the plumes subsided the U-Boat had a bad list to port and was turning sharply. Six men, who had not been seen before, jumped from the conning tower into the sea."
What became of these men we may never know but chances are they were lost if U-383 was "out of control, unable to dive and rudderless" as Kremer is said to have relayed on in one of his 3 signals sent between 2009 and 2137. My thinking on this is that given the circumstances facing Kremer, theyd have had to make it back on their own, if the U-boat was unable to make a controlled effort to rescue them. Also we have Uboat crippled and afloat for atleast 90 mins after attack and yet, no survivors... so, are we looking at heavy casualties during the first attack?
Anyways, getting back on track. Norman Franks notes a 59 Lib attack by Murray and crew, on U-106 but I believe it was infact on the crippled U-383. The 1st Aug attack on this site for U-106 notes the boat was shadowed and allied forces vectored in. X/59 attacked and shadowed until PLE reached, no doubt a "Uboat on the surface" and remaining on the surface throughout, would be cause enough, for an immediate response by naval vessels... Franks notes that allied vessels were sent to the area that U-106 is reported to be in, but I wonder if this was mistaken or even superceeded by X/59 most likely reporting the situation it found itself in... and infact that were headed for 47.24N 12.12W?
From uboatarchive site:
F.d.U./B.d.U.'S War Log, 1 - 15 August on uboat archive site...
01.08.1943: After several previous aircraft attacks U 383 was rendered unable to dive and out of control by a stick of bombs at 2130 in BF 4453. U 218, proceeding in company with U 383, and U 454 and 706 were ordered there immediately to give assistance. Aircraft assistance was promised for 0830. 3 large torpedo boats were also sent out, which could arrive by about 1500. No further report from U 383 by morning".
02.08.1943: "U 706 was also attacked, towards 0900, by an aircraft near U 383's position. At 0920 she reported that the aircraft was still shadowing. U 218 was obliged to dive by destroyers at 0700/2 in BF 4454 and started on her return passage towards 1800 owing to some casualties. Air reconnaissance sighted a large patch of oil in BF 4450 and several English vessels making off in the vicinity. It must therefore be assumed that U 383 sank. No wreckage or survivors were found. The 3 T-boats covered the sinking position at about 1600 in broad formation on a W. course. Nothing further was found of U 383. U 706 was ordered to continue on her outward passage. The same goes for U 454, who has not so far reported. U 106 was again attacked by aircraft at 0937 in BE 69. She was temporarily unable to dive and several times urgently requested air assistance. The 3 torpedo boats sent out to search for U 383 were making for BE 6940 at maximum speed.
In reference to the possibility that X/59s situation called for naval support, is that at 0700 on the 2Nd, in the immediate vicinity (BF4454) of U-383s last known position (BF4453), We have U-218 reported to have forced dived due to (enemy) destroyers... Given that the supposed attack for K/59 on U-106 at 1902 (not 2150) on the "historisches-marinearchiv.de" as BE69, it appears that U-106 remained in that area. Infact this site states that 3 boats were sent to aid U-383, those being U-454, U-218 and U-706, no mention of U-106. If U-106 had been sighted and attacked on the early evening of the 1St, theyd have already had their work cut out for them...
Although the 228 ORB report of the attack by V/228, and the subsequent Coastal review gives the impression that the crew are abandoning ship (six men seen jumping into the water) it appears that she survived atleast until 2130-2137 (time of last signal). The six men overboard being the gunners and those on the C/T when U-383 was attacked by DC/s from V/228.
Part of the Coastal review of "V"s attack.
"The depth charges straddled the target just abaft the conning tower and the U-Boat was completely enveloped in spray. When the plumes subsided the U-Boat had a bad list to port and was turning sharply. Six men, who had not been seen before, jumped from the conning tower into the sea."
What became of these men we may never know but chances are they were lost if U-383 was "out of control, unable to dive and rudderless" as Kremer is said to have relayed on in one of his 3 signals sent between 2009 and 2137. My thinking on this is that given the circumstances facing Kremer, theyd have had to make it back on their own, if the U-boat was unable to make a controlled effort to rescue them. Also we have Uboat crippled and afloat for atleast 90 mins after attack and yet, no survivors... so, are we looking at heavy casualties during the first attack?
Anyways, getting back on track. Norman Franks notes a 59 Lib attack by Murray and crew, on U-106 but I believe it was infact on the crippled U-383. The 1st Aug attack on this site for U-106 notes the boat was shadowed and allied forces vectored in. X/59 attacked and shadowed until PLE reached, no doubt a "Uboat on the surface" and remaining on the surface throughout, would be cause enough, for an immediate response by naval vessels... Franks notes that allied vessels were sent to the area that U-106 is reported to be in, but I wonder if this was mistaken or even superceeded by X/59 most likely reporting the situation it found itself in... and infact that were headed for 47.24N 12.12W?
From uboatarchive site:
F.d.U./B.d.U.'S War Log, 1 - 15 August on uboat archive site...
01.08.1943: After several previous aircraft attacks U 383 was rendered unable to dive and out of control by a stick of bombs at 2130 in BF 4453. U 218, proceeding in company with U 383, and U 454 and 706 were ordered there immediately to give assistance. Aircraft assistance was promised for 0830. 3 large torpedo boats were also sent out, which could arrive by about 1500. No further report from U 383 by morning".
02.08.1943: "U 706 was also attacked, towards 0900, by an aircraft near U 383's position. At 0920 she reported that the aircraft was still shadowing. U 218 was obliged to dive by destroyers at 0700/2 in BF 4454 and started on her return passage towards 1800 owing to some casualties. Air reconnaissance sighted a large patch of oil in BF 4450 and several English vessels making off in the vicinity. It must therefore be assumed that U 383 sank. No wreckage or survivors were found. The 3 T-boats covered the sinking position at about 1600 in broad formation on a W. course. Nothing further was found of U 383. U 706 was ordered to continue on her outward passage. The same goes for U 454, who has not so far reported. U 106 was again attacked by aircraft at 0937 in BE 69. She was temporarily unable to dive and several times urgently requested air assistance. The 3 torpedo boats sent out to search for U 383 were making for BE 6940 at maximum speed.
In reference to the possibility that X/59s situation called for naval support, is that at 0700 on the 2Nd, in the immediate vicinity (BF4454) of U-383s last known position (BF4453), We have U-218 reported to have forced dived due to (enemy) destroyers... Given that the supposed attack for K/59 on U-106 at 1902 (not 2150) on the "historisches-marinearchiv.de" as BE69, it appears that U-106 remained in that area. Infact this site states that 3 boats were sent to aid U-383, those being U-454, U-218 and U-706, no mention of U-106. If U-106 had been sighted and attacked on the early evening of the 1St, theyd have already had their work cut out for them...
