General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942
Posted by:
stiggy128
()
Date: February 11, 2012 06:39AM
Hi Rainer,
Thank you for revealing your research on this topic, it has certainly added a lot to my understanding of the events that occurred on 27th December 1942, but, as usual with these things, has raised a few questions.
Obviously the first is where is that extra aircraft that you suggest that U-73 shot down?
I agree, it would be very helpful to know the a/s patrol area of 'Operation Mascara No.1' (or 'Muscara' as it is seen in Sgt. Wilkins' log book) as this might give us a boundary for events. But how to find this information?
My main query is that the Hudson Mk.IIIA FH426 (233 Sqn RAF) ex USAAC A-29A-LO (41-37227) that was recovered in 1990, and, I understand, was unfortunately scrapped, excepting one of its engines which is now on display at the Museo del Aire in Madrid. It is this engine which causes me some problems. The Mk.IIIA Hudson was powered by two single-row 9-cylinder radial 1,200hp Wright R-1820-87 engines, and that on display is very obviously a double-row 14-cylinder engine (Hudson Mk.V's were fitted with these R1830 type engines). I understand that to modify a Mk.IIIA into a Mk.V Hudson would have been most probably done at factory level, as for technical difficulty this would not have been possible in the field. Could this adaptation have occurred in the US before this Hudson was turned over to the British?
I have another question for you, and one which would help my research enormously.
Only Hudsons from 500 Squadron were ordered to wear US markings for the duration of the 'Operation Torch' hostilities, but these markings would have been the later 'white star without red cherry' type which had been discontinued in May 1942. After 500 Squadron took part in the sinking of U-331 the captain and crew of U-331 in their statements were witness to this fact. I quote;
"The crew appeared to be under the impression that "Z/500" bore United States markings."
and again;
"Prisoners, especially Tiesenhausen, were all very bitter at what they termed the unfair action of the "United States" bombers in machine-gunning their shipmates swimming in the water. They all admitted, however, that the aircraft which fired at them when they later started up their Diesels was quite justified in doing so. (N.I.D. Note. There is no evidence that any United States aircraft were concerned in these attacks."
The question is, at what stage in the North African campaign did 500 Squadron revert back to wearing British markings on their Hudson Mk.V's? Presumably it was after 17th November 1942 and the sinking of U-331. Were the 500 Squadron Hudsons still wearing US colours on 27th December 1942?
Best Regards,
Stiggy
Thank you for revealing your research on this topic, it has certainly added a lot to my understanding of the events that occurred on 27th December 1942, but, as usual with these things, has raised a few questions.
Obviously the first is where is that extra aircraft that you suggest that U-73 shot down?
I agree, it would be very helpful to know the a/s patrol area of 'Operation Mascara No.1' (or 'Muscara' as it is seen in Sgt. Wilkins' log book) as this might give us a boundary for events. But how to find this information?
My main query is that the Hudson Mk.IIIA FH426 (233 Sqn RAF) ex USAAC A-29A-LO (41-37227) that was recovered in 1990, and, I understand, was unfortunately scrapped, excepting one of its engines which is now on display at the Museo del Aire in Madrid. It is this engine which causes me some problems. The Mk.IIIA Hudson was powered by two single-row 9-cylinder radial 1,200hp Wright R-1820-87 engines, and that on display is very obviously a double-row 14-cylinder engine (Hudson Mk.V's were fitted with these R1830 type engines). I understand that to modify a Mk.IIIA into a Mk.V Hudson would have been most probably done at factory level, as for technical difficulty this would not have been possible in the field. Could this adaptation have occurred in the US before this Hudson was turned over to the British?
I have another question for you, and one which would help my research enormously.
Only Hudsons from 500 Squadron were ordered to wear US markings for the duration of the 'Operation Torch' hostilities, but these markings would have been the later 'white star without red cherry' type which had been discontinued in May 1942. After 500 Squadron took part in the sinking of U-331 the captain and crew of U-331 in their statements were witness to this fact. I quote;
"The crew appeared to be under the impression that "Z/500" bore United States markings."
and again;
"Prisoners, especially Tiesenhausen, were all very bitter at what they termed the unfair action of the "United States" bombers in machine-gunning their shipmates swimming in the water. They all admitted, however, that the aircraft which fired at them when they later started up their Diesels was quite justified in doing so. (N.I.D. Note. There is no evidence that any United States aircraft were concerned in these attacks."
The question is, at what stage in the North African campaign did 500 Squadron revert back to wearing British markings on their Hudson Mk.V's? Presumably it was after 17th November 1942 and the sinking of U-331. Were the 500 Squadron Hudsons still wearing US colours on 27th December 1942?
Best Regards,
Stiggy
Subject | Written By | Posted |
---|---|---|
500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | stiggy128 | 02/07/2012 07:15PM |
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | Rainer | 02/09/2012 10:22PM |
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | stiggy128 | 02/10/2012 05:57AM |
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | Rainer | 02/10/2012 07:11PM |
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | stiggy128 | 02/11/2012 06:39AM |
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | Rainer | 02/11/2012 11:30AM |
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | stiggy128 | 02/12/2012 06:13AM |
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | Rainer | 02/13/2012 06:42PM |
Re: 500 Squadron Hudson shot down by U-73 27/12/1942 | stiggy128 | 02/14/2012 07:02PM |
Re: Hudson shot down 27/12/1942 | Loveday Densham | 06/14/2012 08:47AM |