General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
Re: HMS URGE
Posted by:
Platon Alexiades
()
Date: April 24, 2015 12:18AM
Dear Francesco,
I do not have much time to answer as I am preparing my trip.
1. You are assuming that submarines could maintain their theoretical top speed for a period of 48 hours. Not only this was not true for any warship but British submarines dived by day and were limited at an underwater speed of about 2-3 knots except for short burst of speed. HMS URGE did not exceed the speed of 10 knots according to her logs and only for an hour or two (you are assuming she could do that for 40+ consecutive hours. Malta reported that she sailed at 1045/27, a few hours behind schedule and her orders were to reach Alexandria at an estimated speed of advance of 90 miles per day (not 200+). Larger British submarines managed to do 130-150 miles per day but they were faster than "U" class submarines. If you can give me any example of a "U" class submarine doing more than 150 miles per day in the Med I will be glad to retract myself (on this point anyway!).
2. You are assuming that she was ordered to Ras Hilal to attack the schooner SAN GIUSTO. When and where? No such order in her documents or signals that ensued when she was missing. HMS PROTEUS was in a better position to intercept SAN GIUSTO but was not informed of her passage.
3. You are also assuming that fighter pilots never made mistakes in identifying "submarines". I can show you a long list of such mistakes and can quote your own article on the Aprilia convoy (two weeks before this supposed attack on HMS URGE!) when an Italian aircraft escorting the convoy claimed to have attacked a "submarine" only to retract it shortly after that it was a dolphin (14.04.1942).
4. Finally there has been sonar photos which I have seen which claimed to be "irrefutably" HMS URGE. As far as I see the photos are very fuzzy and the wreck could be anything.
I regret I will be unable to answer further as my time is short. I look forward to see you in Rome and have a very healthy debate!
All the best,
Platon
I do not have much time to answer as I am preparing my trip.
1. You are assuming that submarines could maintain their theoretical top speed for a period of 48 hours. Not only this was not true for any warship but British submarines dived by day and were limited at an underwater speed of about 2-3 knots except for short burst of speed. HMS URGE did not exceed the speed of 10 knots according to her logs and only for an hour or two (you are assuming she could do that for 40+ consecutive hours. Malta reported that she sailed at 1045/27, a few hours behind schedule and her orders were to reach Alexandria at an estimated speed of advance of 90 miles per day (not 200+). Larger British submarines managed to do 130-150 miles per day but they were faster than "U" class submarines. If you can give me any example of a "U" class submarine doing more than 150 miles per day in the Med I will be glad to retract myself (on this point anyway!).
2. You are assuming that she was ordered to Ras Hilal to attack the schooner SAN GIUSTO. When and where? No such order in her documents or signals that ensued when she was missing. HMS PROTEUS was in a better position to intercept SAN GIUSTO but was not informed of her passage.
3. You are also assuming that fighter pilots never made mistakes in identifying "submarines". I can show you a long list of such mistakes and can quote your own article on the Aprilia convoy (two weeks before this supposed attack on HMS URGE!) when an Italian aircraft escorting the convoy claimed to have attacked a "submarine" only to retract it shortly after that it was a dolphin (14.04.1942).
4. Finally there has been sonar photos which I have seen which claimed to be "irrefutably" HMS URGE. As far as I see the photos are very fuzzy and the wreck could be anything.
I regret I will be unable to answer further as my time is short. I look forward to see you in Rome and have a very healthy debate!
All the best,
Platon
