General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE:German Gato Class?
Posted by:
joe
()
Date: August 22, 2001 09:45PM
<HTML>Joe:
An interesting thought. What would have happened if the Germans had used US sub designs? In other words, how well would the American boats have done in the Atlantic against the allies?
Probably not much different than the Type VII and Type IX\'s the Germans made, if as well. US boats had some advantages, like surface speed and range, and a more reliable indirect drive propulsion. But the German U-boats were smaller, more manueverable, dove faster, and could go deeper. Some of the mechanics on the German boats, like the optics, were better. (I\'m sidestepping the issue of the awful design problems with US torpedoes, a separate issue). Overall, mechanically, the German boats were better and tougher, a better deal as long as the short range of the Type VII was not a handicap.
Remember also that a US fleet boat was huge, over twice the size of a Type VII. Germany would probably have been better off building larger numbers of Type VIIs than a handful of large fleet boats - Doeniz certainly thought so, and fought the production of the Type IX for years.
But US boats had secure communications, and much better radar detectors, and radar. Secure communications, and a good radar and radar detector are worth a lot more than the other differences between them. And this had really little to do with basic size or design of the subs or the two nations.
If you compare a radar and EW equipped fleet boat as opposed a typical Type VIIC, the fleet boats probably would have done quite well in the beginning war years, when allied ASW was weak, but been massacred in the later war years when allied ASW was strong, just like the Gemran U-boats were, though perhaps the radar and radar detectors of the US boats would have reduced casulties a bit. Remember that the larger, clumsier Type IX\'s had to be withdrawn from the toughest parts of the Battle of the Atlantic because their casulties were so much higher than that of the smaller, nimble Type VII\'s. Fleet boats were even larger than a Type IX.
Given the shorter ranges in the Atlantic, the German choice for a large number of small, short ranged, but tough, boats was the best choice. Their ignoring of the electronic side of war was critical, but really a separate issue from their basic sub design.</HTML>
An interesting thought. What would have happened if the Germans had used US sub designs? In other words, how well would the American boats have done in the Atlantic against the allies?
Probably not much different than the Type VII and Type IX\'s the Germans made, if as well. US boats had some advantages, like surface speed and range, and a more reliable indirect drive propulsion. But the German U-boats were smaller, more manueverable, dove faster, and could go deeper. Some of the mechanics on the German boats, like the optics, were better. (I\'m sidestepping the issue of the awful design problems with US torpedoes, a separate issue). Overall, mechanically, the German boats were better and tougher, a better deal as long as the short range of the Type VII was not a handicap.
Remember also that a US fleet boat was huge, over twice the size of a Type VII. Germany would probably have been better off building larger numbers of Type VIIs than a handful of large fleet boats - Doeniz certainly thought so, and fought the production of the Type IX for years.
But US boats had secure communications, and much better radar detectors, and radar. Secure communications, and a good radar and radar detector are worth a lot more than the other differences between them. And this had really little to do with basic size or design of the subs or the two nations.
If you compare a radar and EW equipped fleet boat as opposed a typical Type VIIC, the fleet boats probably would have done quite well in the beginning war years, when allied ASW was weak, but been massacred in the later war years when allied ASW was strong, just like the Gemran U-boats were, though perhaps the radar and radar detectors of the US boats would have reduced casulties a bit. Remember that the larger, clumsier Type IX\'s had to be withdrawn from the toughest parts of the Battle of the Atlantic because their casulties were so much higher than that of the smaller, nimble Type VII\'s. Fleet boats were even larger than a Type IX.
Given the shorter ranges in the Atlantic, the German choice for a large number of small, short ranged, but tough, boats was the best choice. Their ignoring of the electronic side of war was critical, but really a separate issue from their basic sub design.</HTML>
| Subject | Written By | Posted |
|---|---|---|
American submarines
|
CAL | 08/20/2001 11:55AM |
|
RE: American submarines
|
Michael Lowrey | 08/20/2001 01:32PM |
|
RE: American submarines
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Brian Corijn | 08/20/2001 01:51PM |
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RE: American submarines
|
kurt | 08/20/2001 03:36PM |
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RE: American submarines
|
CAL | 08/20/2001 04:16PM |
|
RE: American submarines
|
Antonio Veiga | 08/20/2001 07:44PM |
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RE: American submarines
|
Antonio Veiga | 08/20/2001 08:04PM |
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RE: American submarines
|
Torlef | 08/21/2001 05:41AM |
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RE: American submarines
|
Joe | 08/22/2001 04:03AM |
|
RE:German Gato Class?
|
joe | 08/22/2001 09:45PM |
|
previous post was by kurt
|
kurt | 08/22/2001 09:46PM |
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RE: previous post was by kurt
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Brian Corijn | 08/23/2001 10:06AM |
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RE: Improvements needed.!
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Joe Brennan | 08/23/2001 05:06AM |