The Barletta wreck previously reported to have been HMS Regent has been examined by Italian divers led by Fabio Bisciotti on Sunday 28th June. It has now been identified as the Italian submarine Giovanni Bausan which was converted as the oil depot G.R.S.251 and used as a target by the Allied Air Forces in June 1944. The divers were: Fabio Bisciotti Alessandro Aulicino Michele Favaron Ste
Forum: General Discussions

Hello Solan, No Allied submarine went to Sweden. It is very doubtful that a submarine would have been considered for the mission and I find the story equally suspicious. I seem to remember that a sabotage mission in neutral Sweden was considered in 1940 and was a fiasco. I doubt very much that a repeat would have been attempted. This could have jeopardised the supply of ball bearings. MGBs wer
Forum: Warship forum

Hi Jim, I will wage a friendly bet with you that NONE of the wrecks claimed at Tabarka are there. :-) Having done quite a bit of naval research in various archives, I have not seen a single reference to Tabarka as far as submarines were concerned (Allied or Axis). It was just a fishing village during WW2 and did not warrant any interest. A minefield was laid off this port by German E-boats
Forum: General Discussions

The wreck of HMS Urge is certainly not that of HMS P36 which is about 8 miles to the northwest. Mr Misson has identified our wreck as: 1. HMS Odin 2. HMS Usk 3. HMS Upholder 4. HMS P36 Next? I suspect that he will go through the whole "U" class list before the year ends. Jim: I have a question for you. Do you really believe his story of eight or nine submarine wrecks a
Forum: General Discussions

Hello Jim, The feature shown at the 1min 40sec mark is the mooring eye in the aft part of the casing. It is not an external torpedo tube! It is typical of HMS Urge. Platon
Forum: General Discussions

Hello Jim, I was not surprised that you were in contact with Mr Misson. Since no bows footage have been released by U of Malta, I fail to understand how you come to your conclusion that you see a "higher bow" and how you can see an external torpedo tube? Perhaps you have mistaken the torpedo loading hatch for an external tube? Have you seen the complete film footage? If so, please de
Forum: General Discussions

Addendum to my previous posting: HMS P48 was also considered but eliminated. Usurper was not examined as she was not operating from Malta (never went to Tabarka as Mr Misson claimed), Platon
Forum: General Discussions

There is excellent footage of the damage to the bows that U of Malta has not released yet. It is clear from them that the wreck does not have the high bow typical of HMS Upholder. Other details, technical and historical, have eliminated the other U-class submarines (we have also considered HMS P33 and HMS P38 which are not on your list). MoD has examined all the documents and proofs provided (it
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The sonar image is not a sufficient indicator. I think a viewing of the video will convince any expert. I am willing to take bets and give odds to the doubters... Thank you. Best regards, Platon
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Hello Jim, We have lengthy footage of the wreck which, I assume, U of Malta will release in time. It is their call to make, I cannot provide mine without their permission. T I do not know which footage you have seen but I have absolutely no doubt that the gun is not attached to the conning tower. From the first ROV examination, there was no doubt it was a U-class submarine. The wreck dimens
Forum: General Discussions

Having seen the full ROV footage of the wreck which obviously you did not, I can only regret to inform you that you are seriously misinformed. The MoD examined carefully all the evidence and came to the conclusion that it was HMS Urge.You do not seem to have looked at the 12-pdr gun footage which is clearly a separate gun mounting and it is obviously not the 4 inch gun which is in a protected mou
Forum: General Discussions

The recent discovery of the wreck of the submarine HMS Urge off Valletta (Malta), mined on the German MT 13 minefield laid by the 3rd Schnellbootflottille, closes this discussion. The Ras Hilal wreck is undoubtedly that of U 205 known to have been lost there in 1943. The 2003 Hydrographic Survey found one wreck there, not two. This proves that identification of wrecks cannot be made by sonar i
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Hi Thorsten, I have informed Brian Corijn and no doubt he will update the HMS Urge page soon. We already had expressed serious doubts about the 2015 theory and are happy to dismiss it definitely. Many thanks. Best regards, Platon
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Hello Felix, The submarine records can only be found in the Rome Archives. At NARA you can find a few naval-related records in the T821 microfilm series but that is about all. These are mostly records captured during the invasion of Sicily. The Italian naval archives were hidden near Rome and avoided falling in the hands of the Germans. They remained in Italian hands and thus were not microfil
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Hello Urs, The position you quoted in US Naval History is correct. The southern tip of the Italian minefield mentioned in my post is 37°25.6' N, 09°53.7' E, that is about 1,200 metres to the north of the reported mining. The western end of the German minelaying operation I was quoting is 37°25.2' N, 09°54.4' E that is only 600 metres away. Note that the position of this
Forum: General Discussions

Sorry but no hostile Italian submarines were operating in the area at the time. They had joined the Allies by then. There is little doubt that Richard Olney hit a mine as she strayed outside the swept channel. The area was heavily mined with two minefields in close proximity, one laid by the Italian minelayer Barletta and the destroyer Da Noli on 30.11.1942 and the other by the 3rd Schnellbootsf
Forum: General Discussions

My previous message was about the attacks by VII Squadriglia. You may add also those of FOLGORE AND FULMINE (VIII Squadriglia) at 2345/16 June and after 2351/16 respectively in an area south of Taranto (sorry I do not have the precise positions) not far from those of the VII Squadriglia. Platon
Forum: General Discussions

Dear Francesco, A submarine could be mined without leaving a lot of traces on the water. See the mining of HMS TRIUMPH on 26 December 1939, It was a miracle that she survived. A smaller submarine would not, this is why one cannot rule out completely a mining (for HMS UPHOLDER, HMS URGE or even the larger HMS ODIN). In the case of HMS ODIN, I would point out that after the BALENO's atta
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Hi, A grid map was recovered from U-49 on 15 April 1940. Platon
Forum: General Discussions

Hi Solan, The date given is between December 1943 and February 1944 and I can confirm that no submarine was used in a special operation in the North Sea or Norwegian Sea during this period. The travel time of 20 hours is highly suspicious as it would take at least a couple of days. If this was a submarine clandestine mission it would probably in Central or Northern Norway. Submarines were too
Forum: General Discussions

Hello Solan, British MGBs were use as blockade runners to Sweden to bring back much-needed ball bearings but they did not carry out saboteurs (AFAIK). For British submarines, you might check "The Allies" section of this site: You can navigate and check the history of each submarine (compiled by Brian Corijn with some assistance of yours truly). There is no tool on this site t
Forum: General Discussions

Hello, I have a copy of ADM358/4490 (loss of HMS Odin) which has a list of her crew and signals associated to her loss. I can share it via Dropbox for a limited time. For those interested please contact me via private message. In return, I am always interested in photographs of submarine and crew. As mentioned by Francesco Mattesini, the cause of her loss is still difficult to ascertain .
Forum: General Discussions

Hello Solan, No submarine was sent to Sweden in 1943. At least no British submarine was involved as the threat of mine in the Kattegat was too great to consider it. The capture of HMS Seal in May 1940 was a sobering lesson. The only time that British submarines were planned to enter the Baltic was on 13th March 1940 when a late attempt was made to assist the Finns (operation R.3). However, Fin
Forum: General Discussions

Hello Chris, Although it is true that ARDENTE observed an oil patch that does not automatically gives credence to her claim. A week earlier, just a few miles from there, the Italian torpedo-boat ORIONE attacked a submarine contact, observed an oil patch and claimed it sunk. Supermarina carefully examined the facts and concluded that she had probably depth-charged the wreck of the transport
Forum: General Discussions

Hello Chris, If you are interested, I have copies of Italian documents concerning the sinking of P48. Although it is almost certain that she was sunk by the Italian torpedo-boat ARDENTE, there is always the possibility that she survived the attack only to be mined later. There was an Italian minefield about 10 miles to the east of ARDENTE's attack. Best regards, Platon
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I am looking for information on the post-capture activities (if any) of the MAS 452 taken by the British during the raid on Malta in July 1941. She appears to have been in Malta at least as far February 1943 and may have been used by the SOE or SIS in clandestine operations. Many thanks, Platon
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Hi Steven, The attack by HMS Thrasher was on the transports Argentina (5083 GRT, 1907) and Italia (5203 GRT, 1905) escorted by the auxiliary Barletta and the torpedo boats Lupo, Climene and Libra. They were travelling from Alimnia to Pireaus. Lupo spotted the torpedo tracks at 0325 (Rome Time) and Libra (Capitano di Corvetta Carlo Brancia di Apricena) was detached to hunt the submarine, droppi
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My friend Eric Wiberg has just published a book on Gernan and Italian submarine operations in the Bahamas. I had a glimpse of the work to come when he visited Montreal a year and a half ago and it should be an excellent read.
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Hi John, Many thanks. Your point is well taken but is rather frustrating that there is no clue that the U-boat was leaving on a mission and not on trials or exercises. Best regards, Platon
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I am looking for the identity of a U-boat which was to meet the Italian submarines ARCHIMEDE and BAGNOLINI off the Gironde estuary on 15.09.1942. The three were to make the Bay of Biscay crossing together to their respective patrol areas. The U-boat providing a measure of security because of its Metox. During the evening of 15 September 1942, the Italians were informed that the U-boat had turned
Forum: General Discussions