General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
Disgusting Slander from @#$%&
Posted by:
JohnV
()
Date: March 29, 2001 07:44PM
<HTML>I just received a very disturbing leaflet that was distributed by @#$%&, head of @#$%&. The leaflet does not contain any attribution as to who the author is, but it was being distributed throughout a gun/militaria show by Mr. Cooper.
@#$%& is probably best known for their claim that THEY created this website. They are also famous for their authoritive articles on such fantasy subjects as secret Nazi bases in Antarctica. For years I have heard how Mr. Cooper has had a vendetta against Hans Goebeler, crewman of U-505, because Hans (who helped Cooper found @#$%& and induced many U-Boat aces to join) began disagreeing with Cooper\'s questionable editorial and business practices. The leaflet alleges among other things that:
1) Hans claimed to be 1st Watch Officer of the U-505
2) Hans Never \"pulled the plug\" on the U-505 to scuttle her
3) Hans was never, for a short time, the youngest Hitler Youth leader in Germany.
I knew Hans Goebeler for several years, and helped him write \"Steel Boats Iron Hearts\", his wartime autobiography. Hans is dead now, so I feel I must speak on his behalf:
1) It is ridiculous to believe that Hans would tell people he was the 1WO (2nd in command) of the U-505, just as he was organizing the first reunions of US & German crews involved in its capture. Does @#$%& expect us to believe that an ordinary crewman posing as the Executive Officer would be a tiny detail not noticed by people, including his former skipper and dozens of his former crewmates? Of course, Cooper doesn\'t name the people who aledgedly heard Hans telling this, so there is no way anyone can check the truthfullness of this ridiculous claim.
2) The leaflet claims that Engineering Officer Hauser and machinist mate Holenreid (SIC: his name was Holdenried) actually pulled the plug to scuttle U-505, not Hans Goebeler. In actuality, Hauser was one of the first to jump overboard. All accounts of the capture concur that all the officers were overboard when the plug was pulled. Holdenried did indeed command the group of enlisted men who stayed behind to scuttle the boat (Hauser neglected to set the demolition charges before he bailed out). But the group of enlisted men gave up and began abandoning ship too after attempts to open diving tank #7 failed. It was Hans, who was on his way out of the boat, on his own intiative uncovered the sea strainer. I have copies of the US Navy interrogation interviews of the U-505 crew after their capture. Both Hauser and Holdenried talked plenty to the Americans (especially Hauser), but niether one of them claimed to have pulled the plug in their interviews. Hans Goebeler didn\'t say anything either. In fact, Hans interviewer got absolutely nothing out of him, writing \"Security Conscious\" in big letters at the top of Hans\' interview page. The fact is, no one except Hans Goebeler ever publically claimed to have pulled the plug on U-505. And no U-505 crewman has ever publically claimed that Hans didn\'t do it. Again, all we have are these shadowy, unverifyable claims. The leaflet I received says that someone overheard some un-named crewmembers of the U-505 complaining about Hans\' claim... but again there is no way anyone can confirm the truth of the leaflet\'s allegations. Anonymous accusations from an annonymous accuser!
3) Hans\' widow Erika just sent me a xerox of a letter confirming Hans\' status as the youngest HJ leader. It is from NSDAP-HJ Jungstamm V/224 and is signed by the Fahnleinfuhrer Karl Hartmann (hard to read the script signature). I have also seen many times the photo of Hans with his troop.
Hans Goebeler was one of the bravest, most honorable men I\'ve ever met. You asked for any opinions of @#$%&. If this disgusting, dishonorable, disreputable leaflet is any example of @#$%&\'s or @#$%&\'s work, I would not get near them.
John Vanzo</HTML>
@#$%& is probably best known for their claim that THEY created this website. They are also famous for their authoritive articles on such fantasy subjects as secret Nazi bases in Antarctica. For years I have heard how Mr. Cooper has had a vendetta against Hans Goebeler, crewman of U-505, because Hans (who helped Cooper found @#$%& and induced many U-Boat aces to join) began disagreeing with Cooper\'s questionable editorial and business practices. The leaflet alleges among other things that:
1) Hans claimed to be 1st Watch Officer of the U-505
2) Hans Never \"pulled the plug\" on the U-505 to scuttle her
3) Hans was never, for a short time, the youngest Hitler Youth leader in Germany.
I knew Hans Goebeler for several years, and helped him write \"Steel Boats Iron Hearts\", his wartime autobiography. Hans is dead now, so I feel I must speak on his behalf:
1) It is ridiculous to believe that Hans would tell people he was the 1WO (2nd in command) of the U-505, just as he was organizing the first reunions of US & German crews involved in its capture. Does @#$%& expect us to believe that an ordinary crewman posing as the Executive Officer would be a tiny detail not noticed by people, including his former skipper and dozens of his former crewmates? Of course, Cooper doesn\'t name the people who aledgedly heard Hans telling this, so there is no way anyone can check the truthfullness of this ridiculous claim.
2) The leaflet claims that Engineering Officer Hauser and machinist mate Holenreid (SIC: his name was Holdenried) actually pulled the plug to scuttle U-505, not Hans Goebeler. In actuality, Hauser was one of the first to jump overboard. All accounts of the capture concur that all the officers were overboard when the plug was pulled. Holdenried did indeed command the group of enlisted men who stayed behind to scuttle the boat (Hauser neglected to set the demolition charges before he bailed out). But the group of enlisted men gave up and began abandoning ship too after attempts to open diving tank #7 failed. It was Hans, who was on his way out of the boat, on his own intiative uncovered the sea strainer. I have copies of the US Navy interrogation interviews of the U-505 crew after their capture. Both Hauser and Holdenried talked plenty to the Americans (especially Hauser), but niether one of them claimed to have pulled the plug in their interviews. Hans Goebeler didn\'t say anything either. In fact, Hans interviewer got absolutely nothing out of him, writing \"Security Conscious\" in big letters at the top of Hans\' interview page. The fact is, no one except Hans Goebeler ever publically claimed to have pulled the plug on U-505. And no U-505 crewman has ever publically claimed that Hans didn\'t do it. Again, all we have are these shadowy, unverifyable claims. The leaflet I received says that someone overheard some un-named crewmembers of the U-505 complaining about Hans\' claim... but again there is no way anyone can confirm the truth of the leaflet\'s allegations. Anonymous accusations from an annonymous accuser!
3) Hans\' widow Erika just sent me a xerox of a letter confirming Hans\' status as the youngest HJ leader. It is from NSDAP-HJ Jungstamm V/224 and is signed by the Fahnleinfuhrer Karl Hartmann (hard to read the script signature). I have also seen many times the photo of Hans with his troop.
Hans Goebeler was one of the bravest, most honorable men I\'ve ever met. You asked for any opinions of @#$%&. If this disgusting, dishonorable, disreputable leaflet is any example of @#$%&\'s or @#$%&\'s work, I would not get near them.
John Vanzo</HTML>
| Subject | Written By | Posted |
|---|---|---|
@#$%&.com
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Patrick Lane | 03/29/2001 01:52PM |
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Disgusting Slander from @#$%&
|
JohnV | 03/29/2001 07:44PM |
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RE: Disgusting Slander from @#$%&
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Sergio | 03/30/2001 05:55AM |
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RE: Disgusting Slander from @#$%&
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Lawrence | 03/30/2001 08:45PM |
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RE: Disgusting Slander from @#$%&
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Yngvi | 03/30/2001 10:30PM |
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RE: Disgusting Slander from @#$%&
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Lawrence | 03/31/2001 06:57AM |
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RE: Disgusting Slander from @#$%&
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MPC | 03/31/2001 05:00PM |
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RE: @#$%&.com
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Jeff | 03/31/2001 10:00PM |
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RE: @#$%&.com
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Jeff | 03/31/2001 10:06PM |
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RE: @#$%&.com
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JohnV | 04/01/2001 07:14PM |
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RE: @#$%&.com
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Steve | 04/03/2001 11:35PM |