General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
Re: B-Dienst Successes - Admiralty Code Broken
Posted by:
Funkmeister
()
Date: December 06, 2008 10:01AM
Hello Glider1 and all!
I wrote that codes could be broken more easy than ciphers, and actually it is the truth.
But, the human factor in any codebreaking is the most important.
We have to know that the codes in merchant marine were used by not always the high trained specialists, but with "ordinary" wireless operators. Mistakes were possible, of course.
Please, don't think that I don't respect their professionalism and courage, not at all! They have my all respect!
Even the highest trained professionals make mistakes!
The Germans, better to say their raiders, found some allied codes, and other top secret material, and it helped in codebreaking, of course.
Back gain to the human factor.
Even the British used some German mistakes in coding in codebreaking.
For example, ciphering the same message first by means of three rotors, and almost immediately by means of four rotors. Great mistake, indeed!
It is better to send a message open, en clair, than using the two different ciphering methods for the same message!
And, the British succeeded to break the Lorenz cipher because one German operator, in Athens (Greece), sent one message, by teletype, to Wienna (Austria), using the same key on the ciphering machine. But, because he had to send the same message again, the first time the operator in Wienna didn't receive the whole message, the operator in Athens shortened the message, not much but it was fatal.
The British operator, who monitored and intercepted the sending, realized that the message, the both "versions", was sent with the same key. And, the information (the both intercepted messages) was sent to the BP, and after that the scientists came on the scene, found the philosophy of the Lorenz cipher machine, finally made the Colossus etc etc.
About the PM Winston Churchill... He was great man, and he did much for his country and the world. But, there are myths, and most of them (if not all of them) are wrong.
The myth about Coventry, that he knew about the attack and did nothing, in order to safe secret about the successful codebreaking in the BP.
Well, he and the others wished to save the secret, no doubt. But, he was ensured that one squadron (the electronic warfare service) of the RAF would "remove" German radio navigational signals, sent from France, and that German bombers would drop their bombs on the empty field.
The squadron made mistake, they didn't find the right frequency, and the town and the citizens had great suffered.
Of course, we are realists, and we do know that during such hard and tragically times responsible persons have to make hard decisions. It is not easy, and there isn't the perfect decision, just more or less bad...
Finally, everything I wrote about the changing the codes and ciphers during war, I still think so. The both sides had the same problem, how to replace possibly compromised codes and ciphers.
They had to make the new codes and ciphering machines (at least the new keys used on the old machines), they had to delivery the new materials to ll stations, operators had to be trained, and the most important, from the same time all stations had to use the new codes and/or ciphers.
Because of that, the mistakes were possible, and it is just question of bad or good luck if the opposite operators in one of the intercepting stations, is on the right frequency on the right time, and if he or she realized how good material he or she just received.
Unknown heroes, usually enlisted personnel, they even rare are informed how great thing they made, and how it is important to their countries.
By the way, this discussion shows that smart people visit this site, and it is great. This is good place for finding many information and to share ideas!
Best regards!
Funkmeister
I wrote that codes could be broken more easy than ciphers, and actually it is the truth.
But, the human factor in any codebreaking is the most important.
We have to know that the codes in merchant marine were used by not always the high trained specialists, but with "ordinary" wireless operators. Mistakes were possible, of course.
Please, don't think that I don't respect their professionalism and courage, not at all! They have my all respect!
Even the highest trained professionals make mistakes!
The Germans, better to say their raiders, found some allied codes, and other top secret material, and it helped in codebreaking, of course.
Back gain to the human factor.
Even the British used some German mistakes in coding in codebreaking.
For example, ciphering the same message first by means of three rotors, and almost immediately by means of four rotors. Great mistake, indeed!
It is better to send a message open, en clair, than using the two different ciphering methods for the same message!
And, the British succeeded to break the Lorenz cipher because one German operator, in Athens (Greece), sent one message, by teletype, to Wienna (Austria), using the same key on the ciphering machine. But, because he had to send the same message again, the first time the operator in Wienna didn't receive the whole message, the operator in Athens shortened the message, not much but it was fatal.
The British operator, who monitored and intercepted the sending, realized that the message, the both "versions", was sent with the same key. And, the information (the both intercepted messages) was sent to the BP, and after that the scientists came on the scene, found the philosophy of the Lorenz cipher machine, finally made the Colossus etc etc.
About the PM Winston Churchill... He was great man, and he did much for his country and the world. But, there are myths, and most of them (if not all of them) are wrong.
The myth about Coventry, that he knew about the attack and did nothing, in order to safe secret about the successful codebreaking in the BP.
Well, he and the others wished to save the secret, no doubt. But, he was ensured that one squadron (the electronic warfare service) of the RAF would "remove" German radio navigational signals, sent from France, and that German bombers would drop their bombs on the empty field.
The squadron made mistake, they didn't find the right frequency, and the town and the citizens had great suffered.
Of course, we are realists, and we do know that during such hard and tragically times responsible persons have to make hard decisions. It is not easy, and there isn't the perfect decision, just more or less bad...
Finally, everything I wrote about the changing the codes and ciphers during war, I still think so. The both sides had the same problem, how to replace possibly compromised codes and ciphers.
They had to make the new codes and ciphering machines (at least the new keys used on the old machines), they had to delivery the new materials to ll stations, operators had to be trained, and the most important, from the same time all stations had to use the new codes and/or ciphers.
Because of that, the mistakes were possible, and it is just question of bad or good luck if the opposite operators in one of the intercepting stations, is on the right frequency on the right time, and if he or she realized how good material he or she just received.
Unknown heroes, usually enlisted personnel, they even rare are informed how great thing they made, and how it is important to their countries.
By the way, this discussion shows that smart people visit this site, and it is great. This is good place for finding many information and to share ideas!
Best regards!
Funkmeister
