General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
Re: sama
Posted by:
Yuri IL'IN
()
Date: January 28, 2002 12:43PM
<HTML>Well. Let's discuss U-boats.
12 February 1942 from the Soviet naval base Polarny left submarine Shch-403 under the command of Lieutenant commander Sergey Ivanovich Kovalenko. On the night of 19 February 5 off Honningsvog bay under the conditions of poor visibility submarine was attaked by German mine layer Brummer (former Norwegian Olav Tryuggvasson) and trawlers M-1502 and M-1503. Submarine Shch-403 escaped. Lieutenant commander Kovalenko was heavily injured on bridge and fell into German captivity where they amputated his injured foot. Soon Germans learned, that he was the commander of submarine. They threw Soviet seaman to the camp for the POW's submariners not far from Paris, where Lieutenant commander Sergey Kovalenko was shot by Germans in 1944. He was the unique Russian submariner in the camp and he only was shot. His fault consist only that he have Russian uniform and did not want to coloborate with Kriegsmarine.
February 19, 1942 the commander of the Soviet submarines Schtsch-403 captain-lieutenant Semion Kovalenko was hardly wounded and captured at sea as nazi POW.
In September, 1944 the commander of the German U-250 captain-lieutenant Schmidt was captured as Russian POW too.
But fate of this two captain-lieutenants has developed quite differ. Schmidt some years later return at home to Germaby with good body condition. The captain-lieutenant Kovalenko was killed by nazi in French.
What for was killed captain Kovalenko? He wore the Soviet naval uniform and did not yield to colaboration with the nazi.
August 17, 1942 German U-209 on the approach to Matochkin Shar has attacked on unarmed group of ships and has sunk by gun and machine gun fire two barge, tow steamer \"Komiles\" and killed the people, afloat in water. Total 305 men were lost.
July 27, 1943 German U-255 by a gun fire has sunk a civil scientific expedition vessel \"Academician Schokalsky\" and from a machine gun fired civilian personal on ice.
I know only one example of insecure actions of the Soviet submarines
According to the Norway data when the Soviet submarine K-21 on the 12 April 1943 reached Svensgrunnen by Senja, the Russians noticed several small vessels, which were fishing. The Russians opened fire on the boats, even if these were unarmed. 9 fishermen lost their lives, and one died of his wounds later. (Some sources state 17 men dead, wounded or missing) These vessels were sunk. Havegg, Fro and Oystein.
From one of these vessels, Skreien from Gryllefjord the entire crew, 7 men were brought aboard K-21 and were taken to Poljarnyj, Murmansk.
In Murmansk, the fishermen were interrogated, and were offered a) to join the Russian army, or b) enlist as NKVD partisans. One Norwegian from Skreien, Rasmus Rydningen, chose the latter, and was enlisted into the Naval partisan group Fleet Group 4090 located at the Lavna camp.
.
The commander of K-21 was 36 years old, and his name was Nicolai Aleksandrovich Lunin.
He stayed in the Soviet navy until 1962. reaching the rank of Admiral.
.
This is from KTB Polarkuste:
.
(..) beschiesst russ. U-Boot mit Artillerie und MG
aus nachster Nahe Gruppe norw. Fischkutter in
Seegebiet Sveingrunn (westl. Insel Senja).
9 Tote, 4 Schwerverletzte. 1 Kutter versenkt,
1 Kutter vermisst, 2 Kutter beschadigt.
1 Mann vom U-Boot gefangen. vermutl. bei
Alarmtauchen uber Bord gefallen. U-jagd mit HS-
Booten Narvik angesetzt.
Nach Aussagen von kriegsgefangenen Matrosen Alex Labytin ist U-Boot
K-21 am 3.4. Poljarnoje ausgelaufen. Kdt.Kapitan 2. Ranges Popoff.O
.
Alex Labytin is still alive. He escaped from German captivity and via Sweden returned to Russia.
.
According to the Soviet data this tragical incident is linked to an error. The commander of the Soviet submarines had no the order or determination to attack civil vessels.
The Soviet seiner of #20 of company "Glavvostokrybprom" was attacked near
Rebun island by amepican submarine "Pepmit". This occurred in the clear weather.
Without having been dismantled at the belonging of vessel commander gave order
to float up and shot vessel. Only after submarine come near in order to finally
destroy the seiner American commander understood his error.
President Roosevelt send to Stalin letter with the apologies. This is one of
6 similar cases during WW2.
I reported concrete real facts which is known to me. On the basis of these facts it is not possible to do a conclusion about the
excessive cruelty of Russians and about large number of military crimes.
If you consider these facts uncertain try to refute them.
I shell recognize my error. If you consider that I selected only facts necessary to me,
you can report other additional facts.
However, this must be concrete reliable data. If you write that
- I do not love these bad Russians. For this reason everything that they do is bad.
this will not be convincing for me. These are your emotions but not real facts.
Hitler and his best friend Doenits considered Russian as untermensch. When Russian not in words but in real live shown who is who, Doenits was ready to surrender to Western Allies but resist Russian. He would not like to recognize himself as untermensch. For justifying the operations he began to be spread hearings about cruelty of Russian. Some people continue to believe this Nazi propaganda till now. The real facts contradict this false point of view.</HTML>
12 February 1942 from the Soviet naval base Polarny left submarine Shch-403 under the command of Lieutenant commander Sergey Ivanovich Kovalenko. On the night of 19 February 5 off Honningsvog bay under the conditions of poor visibility submarine was attaked by German mine layer Brummer (former Norwegian Olav Tryuggvasson) and trawlers M-1502 and M-1503. Submarine Shch-403 escaped. Lieutenant commander Kovalenko was heavily injured on bridge and fell into German captivity where they amputated his injured foot. Soon Germans learned, that he was the commander of submarine. They threw Soviet seaman to the camp for the POW's submariners not far from Paris, where Lieutenant commander Sergey Kovalenko was shot by Germans in 1944. He was the unique Russian submariner in the camp and he only was shot. His fault consist only that he have Russian uniform and did not want to coloborate with Kriegsmarine.
February 19, 1942 the commander of the Soviet submarines Schtsch-403 captain-lieutenant Semion Kovalenko was hardly wounded and captured at sea as nazi POW.
In September, 1944 the commander of the German U-250 captain-lieutenant Schmidt was captured as Russian POW too.
But fate of this two captain-lieutenants has developed quite differ. Schmidt some years later return at home to Germaby with good body condition. The captain-lieutenant Kovalenko was killed by nazi in French.
What for was killed captain Kovalenko? He wore the Soviet naval uniform and did not yield to colaboration with the nazi.
August 17, 1942 German U-209 on the approach to Matochkin Shar has attacked on unarmed group of ships and has sunk by gun and machine gun fire two barge, tow steamer \"Komiles\" and killed the people, afloat in water. Total 305 men were lost.
July 27, 1943 German U-255 by a gun fire has sunk a civil scientific expedition vessel \"Academician Schokalsky\" and from a machine gun fired civilian personal on ice.
I know only one example of insecure actions of the Soviet submarines
According to the Norway data when the Soviet submarine K-21 on the 12 April 1943 reached Svensgrunnen by Senja, the Russians noticed several small vessels, which were fishing. The Russians opened fire on the boats, even if these were unarmed. 9 fishermen lost their lives, and one died of his wounds later. (Some sources state 17 men dead, wounded or missing) These vessels were sunk. Havegg, Fro and Oystein.
From one of these vessels, Skreien from Gryllefjord the entire crew, 7 men were brought aboard K-21 and were taken to Poljarnyj, Murmansk.
In Murmansk, the fishermen were interrogated, and were offered a) to join the Russian army, or b) enlist as NKVD partisans. One Norwegian from Skreien, Rasmus Rydningen, chose the latter, and was enlisted into the Naval partisan group Fleet Group 4090 located at the Lavna camp.
.
The commander of K-21 was 36 years old, and his name was Nicolai Aleksandrovich Lunin.
He stayed in the Soviet navy until 1962. reaching the rank of Admiral.
.
This is from KTB Polarkuste:
.
(..) beschiesst russ. U-Boot mit Artillerie und MG
aus nachster Nahe Gruppe norw. Fischkutter in
Seegebiet Sveingrunn (westl. Insel Senja).
9 Tote, 4 Schwerverletzte. 1 Kutter versenkt,
1 Kutter vermisst, 2 Kutter beschadigt.
1 Mann vom U-Boot gefangen. vermutl. bei
Alarmtauchen uber Bord gefallen. U-jagd mit HS-
Booten Narvik angesetzt.
Nach Aussagen von kriegsgefangenen Matrosen Alex Labytin ist U-Boot
K-21 am 3.4. Poljarnoje ausgelaufen. Kdt.Kapitan 2. Ranges Popoff.O
.
Alex Labytin is still alive. He escaped from German captivity and via Sweden returned to Russia.
.
According to the Soviet data this tragical incident is linked to an error. The commander of the Soviet submarines had no the order or determination to attack civil vessels.
The Soviet seiner of #20 of company "Glavvostokrybprom" was attacked near
Rebun island by amepican submarine "Pepmit". This occurred in the clear weather.
Without having been dismantled at the belonging of vessel commander gave order
to float up and shot vessel. Only after submarine come near in order to finally
destroy the seiner American commander understood his error.
President Roosevelt send to Stalin letter with the apologies. This is one of
6 similar cases during WW2.
I reported concrete real facts which is known to me. On the basis of these facts it is not possible to do a conclusion about the
excessive cruelty of Russians and about large number of military crimes.
If you consider these facts uncertain try to refute them.
I shell recognize my error. If you consider that I selected only facts necessary to me,
you can report other additional facts.
However, this must be concrete reliable data. If you write that
- I do not love these bad Russians. For this reason everything that they do is bad.
this will not be convincing for me. These are your emotions but not real facts.
Hitler and his best friend Doenits considered Russian as untermensch. When Russian not in words but in real live shown who is who, Doenits was ready to surrender to Western Allies but resist Russian. He would not like to recognize himself as untermensch. For justifying the operations he began to be spread hearings about cruelty of Russian. Some people continue to believe this Nazi propaganda till now. The real facts contradict this false point of view.</HTML>
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Re: Atrocities
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Re: Atrocities
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WKL | 01/26/2002 02:51PM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Yuri IL'IN | 01/26/2002 04:08PM |
|
Re: Atrocities
|
Joseph Curry | 01/26/2002 04:50PM |
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Re: sama
|
Carl | 01/27/2002 11:20PM |
|
Re: sama
|
Yuri IL'IN | 01/28/2002 12:43PM |
|
Final message to Yuri
|
Joseph Curry | 01/28/2002 01:58PM |
|
Final message to Yuri
|
Joseph Curry | 01/28/2002 02:02PM |
|
Re: sama
|
Carl | 01/29/2002 11:56PM |
|
Re: sama
|
Yuri IL\'IN | 01/30/2002 01:30AM |
|
Re: sama
|
Jeff McBride | 01/30/2002 04:07PM |
|
Re: sama
|
Yuri IL'IN | 01/30/2002 05:46PM |
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Re: sama
|
Carl | 01/31/2002 11:33PM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Kelland Huchence | 01/24/2002 11:39PM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Dietzsch | 01/25/2002 12:06AM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Joseph Curry | 01/25/2002 03:15AM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Carl | 01/25/2002 01:57AM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Joseph Curry | 01/25/2002 03:52AM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Max von Schuler | 01/25/2002 09:35AM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Vin | 01/25/2002 10:22AM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Max von Schuler | 01/25/2002 01:38PM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Joseph Curry | 01/25/2002 03:05PM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
kurt | 01/25/2002 05:46PM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Max von Schuler | 01/26/2002 11:47AM |
|
Re: sama
|
kurt | 01/26/2002 09:23PM |
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Re: Atrocities
|
Rodney Martin | 01/26/2002 03:06PM |