General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: HMS Scotia and machine gunning etc
Posted by:
John Griffiths
()
Date: February 02, 2001 11:38PM
<HTML>Guys,
Hmm...the account I relayed was taken from the actual log book of the vessel concerned. Unfortunately, such events did happen and there\'s an end to it. In war, whether you accept it or not, some terrible things were done in the heat of the moment.
As an aside, here\'s another \'fact\' for you.Convoy OB-217 and the \'Eurymedon\' - a Blue Funnel cargo ship belonging to Alfred Holt & Co of Liverpool. The vessel was struck by a torpedo fired by U-29 shortly after midday on Sept 25th 1940.
The torpedo killed all hands below in the engine room and destroyed two lifeboats amidships, port side.
The passengers and some crew were told to stand-by the other four boats, a radio message was transmitted and distress flags flown. At 1400 approx, U-29 fired a second torpedo into the vessel, starboard side, destroying two lifeboats and killing most of the passengers and crew who were in them at the davits. That is to say, the boats were manned. The remaining boats were then launched by Captain Webster of the \'Eurymedon\' and ordered to stand off the ship. U-29 surfaced two miles away and remained surfaced for thirty minutes. She then submerged.
A Canadian destroyer, HMCS \'Ottawa\' arrived on scene and took the survivors aboard. The Master and Mate of the \'Eurymedon\' stayed aboard and a boat was sent back for them. The \'Ottawa\' then left the scene as she had convoy duty.
Four lifeboats from a Donaldson liner, \'Sulairia\', arrived during the evening - the Donaldson boat having fallen victim earlier to U-43.
The situation abaord Eurymedon\' was graver than thought and the water could not be stopped from entering the vessel. The ship was abandoned next morning. \'Ottawa\' returned to stand-by until HMS \'Primrose\' - a Flower Class corvette - arrived to attempt to salve the ship and tow her to shore. Again, another night passed. When \'Primrose\' arrived it was thought she might assist to pump the water out. As the weather was closing in, the survivors were taken back aboard \'Ottawa\' who stood by the stricken cargo ship until \'Primrose\' arrived later. There was nothing that could be done and \'Eurymedon\' slipped the surface at 20.05.
29 passengers and crew had died in the attack.
Again, it is clear to see the both sides of this. On the one hand, the U-boat may have seen survvivors in the boats at the davits and could have fired a shot off at the bows or stern - that would breach the already damaged sections and sink the ship.Their orders were to sink ships - especially if they were transmitting their position in relation to an attack. Rules of Engagement.
In the event, they did shoot. The torpedo fired struck the ship under the manned boats, killing most of the crew and passengers in the boat.
That, gentlemen, is war - right or wrong. No-one will really know what caused the U boat to fire at a point where it was obvious there were people - a full boat at the davits is usually signified by people sitting in it and moving around.
However, it was done.
We can procrastinate on this subject all night and day - but in war, many atrocities are perpetuated by both sides in the heat of battle. We also did our share - and I\'m pretty sure that they\'ll never be known until many years from now. Don\'t forget - an SS Division burned British POW\'s to death in a french barn.
Likewise, we also did some pretty awful things. The Russians, as well, torpedoed the \'Wilhelm Gustloff\' - despite the fact she was carryng Red Cross markings and was filled overcapacity with wounded and women and children. A larger loss of life than the \'Titanic\' and more recent - but who recalls that? Not glamorous you see and anyway, they were \'the enemy\'.
It happened. No-one is blameless. It is the nature of the beast, I\'m afraid.
John
</HTML>
Hmm...the account I relayed was taken from the actual log book of the vessel concerned. Unfortunately, such events did happen and there\'s an end to it. In war, whether you accept it or not, some terrible things were done in the heat of the moment.
As an aside, here\'s another \'fact\' for you.Convoy OB-217 and the \'Eurymedon\' - a Blue Funnel cargo ship belonging to Alfred Holt & Co of Liverpool. The vessel was struck by a torpedo fired by U-29 shortly after midday on Sept 25th 1940.
The torpedo killed all hands below in the engine room and destroyed two lifeboats amidships, port side.
The passengers and some crew were told to stand-by the other four boats, a radio message was transmitted and distress flags flown. At 1400 approx, U-29 fired a second torpedo into the vessel, starboard side, destroying two lifeboats and killing most of the passengers and crew who were in them at the davits. That is to say, the boats were manned. The remaining boats were then launched by Captain Webster of the \'Eurymedon\' and ordered to stand off the ship. U-29 surfaced two miles away and remained surfaced for thirty minutes. She then submerged.
A Canadian destroyer, HMCS \'Ottawa\' arrived on scene and took the survivors aboard. The Master and Mate of the \'Eurymedon\' stayed aboard and a boat was sent back for them. The \'Ottawa\' then left the scene as she had convoy duty.
Four lifeboats from a Donaldson liner, \'Sulairia\', arrived during the evening - the Donaldson boat having fallen victim earlier to U-43.
The situation abaord Eurymedon\' was graver than thought and the water could not be stopped from entering the vessel. The ship was abandoned next morning. \'Ottawa\' returned to stand-by until HMS \'Primrose\' - a Flower Class corvette - arrived to attempt to salve the ship and tow her to shore. Again, another night passed. When \'Primrose\' arrived it was thought she might assist to pump the water out. As the weather was closing in, the survivors were taken back aboard \'Ottawa\' who stood by the stricken cargo ship until \'Primrose\' arrived later. There was nothing that could be done and \'Eurymedon\' slipped the surface at 20.05.
29 passengers and crew had died in the attack.
Again, it is clear to see the both sides of this. On the one hand, the U-boat may have seen survvivors in the boats at the davits and could have fired a shot off at the bows or stern - that would breach the already damaged sections and sink the ship.Their orders were to sink ships - especially if they were transmitting their position in relation to an attack. Rules of Engagement.
In the event, they did shoot. The torpedo fired struck the ship under the manned boats, killing most of the crew and passengers in the boat.
That, gentlemen, is war - right or wrong. No-one will really know what caused the U boat to fire at a point where it was obvious there were people - a full boat at the davits is usually signified by people sitting in it and moving around.
However, it was done.
We can procrastinate on this subject all night and day - but in war, many atrocities are perpetuated by both sides in the heat of battle. We also did our share - and I\'m pretty sure that they\'ll never be known until many years from now. Don\'t forget - an SS Division burned British POW\'s to death in a french barn.
Likewise, we also did some pretty awful things. The Russians, as well, torpedoed the \'Wilhelm Gustloff\' - despite the fact she was carryng Red Cross markings and was filled overcapacity with wounded and women and children. A larger loss of life than the \'Titanic\' and more recent - but who recalls that? Not glamorous you see and anyway, they were \'the enemy\'.
It happened. No-one is blameless. It is the nature of the beast, I\'m afraid.
John
</HTML>
