General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
Re: Grand Admiral Doenitz
Posted by:
Jack
()
Date: October 19, 2001 10:40AM
<HTML>Chris,
I'm reading a book by a German named Guido Knopp, "Hitler's Henchmen." As you may derive from the title, Donitz is portrayed in a less than flattering light. Nevertheless, Knopp highlites Donitz' leadership attributes succiently in a mere 50 pages of easy reading. Knopp pulls many topics out of context in order to reinforce his conclusions, but does a good job of capturing key incidents and attributes of Donitz career and character. It's a worthy read of a contemporary German view of Donitz, but I'd read it only after you've read enough to spot Knopp's bias and errors.
Others described in this book are Goebbels, Goring, Himmler, Hess, Speer, and lastly Donitz. One thing I have consistently noted about history books is that Donitz is never listed as one of the first tier demented guys who led Germany, he is always tossed in 'as oh yeah don't forget him, too.' I perceive that is due to Donitz succeeding Hitler as Germany's leader at the end of the war.
I also suggest you read memoirs by Churchhill and other leaders of WWII for their opinion of Uboats/Donitz, I think you'll find uniform admiration of his leadership attributes.
I also think it is of value to read US sub leadership memoirs (Charles Lockwood, the guy who was capt of the USS Tang, etc) in order to develop a broader perspective to judge Donitz leadership within. For example, Donitz catches crap in Knopp's book for his Order 154 to not rescue survivors, and for his orders after the 'Laconia' incident.
The US (properly, but against prevailing international law) ordered unrestricted submarine warfare immediately after the Japanese 12/7/41 attack, and never rescued Japanese survivors unless of tactical or strategic value. Germany behaved similarily. I am aware of only one incident in which Uboats murdered survivors in the water. There is also one similar incident in which a US sub machine gunned Japanese survivors. My conclusion is that both the Americans/British and the Germans conducted a brutal sub war to win, but with admirable restraint after establishing a sinking. I believe that generally no sailor of any side sought to murder his opponent, but instead honored the effort of his enemy and wished him a successful trip back to land.
I'd also find a good book about the Nuremberg trials, there both sides present facts relevant to Donitz offense/defense. Donitz was tepidly found guilty of 1 of 4 charges, I believe.
Donitz staff officer who wrote a good book is Victor Oehrn.
Lastly, what I think speaks loudly for Donitz is that many US sub captains testified in Donitz behalf at Nurenburg. Essentially, the thrust of their testimony was that their orders against the Japanese were the same as the German orders against the Allies.
Clearly, Donitz was an unusual fellow of magnificent capability and disputed perspective. I truely look forward to your contribution. Had Donitz served the Allied side, I believe he would be revered as one of the world's leading naval leaders of all time. However, since he served Hitler, Germany lost, and since he was Germany's political leader for a short period, history's judgment is harsher because the Allies felt obligated to punish leaders responsible for WWII and all that occurred within it. It is also noteworthy that the judgment of German leadership at Nuremberg is well known, but the Japanese war criminals were strikingly handled mildly.
You research, and you decide.
Jack</HTML>
I'm reading a book by a German named Guido Knopp, "Hitler's Henchmen." As you may derive from the title, Donitz is portrayed in a less than flattering light. Nevertheless, Knopp highlites Donitz' leadership attributes succiently in a mere 50 pages of easy reading. Knopp pulls many topics out of context in order to reinforce his conclusions, but does a good job of capturing key incidents and attributes of Donitz career and character. It's a worthy read of a contemporary German view of Donitz, but I'd read it only after you've read enough to spot Knopp's bias and errors.
Others described in this book are Goebbels, Goring, Himmler, Hess, Speer, and lastly Donitz. One thing I have consistently noted about history books is that Donitz is never listed as one of the first tier demented guys who led Germany, he is always tossed in 'as oh yeah don't forget him, too.' I perceive that is due to Donitz succeeding Hitler as Germany's leader at the end of the war.
I also suggest you read memoirs by Churchhill and other leaders of WWII for their opinion of Uboats/Donitz, I think you'll find uniform admiration of his leadership attributes.
I also think it is of value to read US sub leadership memoirs (Charles Lockwood, the guy who was capt of the USS Tang, etc) in order to develop a broader perspective to judge Donitz leadership within. For example, Donitz catches crap in Knopp's book for his Order 154 to not rescue survivors, and for his orders after the 'Laconia' incident.
The US (properly, but against prevailing international law) ordered unrestricted submarine warfare immediately after the Japanese 12/7/41 attack, and never rescued Japanese survivors unless of tactical or strategic value. Germany behaved similarily. I am aware of only one incident in which Uboats murdered survivors in the water. There is also one similar incident in which a US sub machine gunned Japanese survivors. My conclusion is that both the Americans/British and the Germans conducted a brutal sub war to win, but with admirable restraint after establishing a sinking. I believe that generally no sailor of any side sought to murder his opponent, but instead honored the effort of his enemy and wished him a successful trip back to land.
I'd also find a good book about the Nuremberg trials, there both sides present facts relevant to Donitz offense/defense. Donitz was tepidly found guilty of 1 of 4 charges, I believe.
Donitz staff officer who wrote a good book is Victor Oehrn.
Lastly, what I think speaks loudly for Donitz is that many US sub captains testified in Donitz behalf at Nurenburg. Essentially, the thrust of their testimony was that their orders against the Japanese were the same as the German orders against the Allies.
Clearly, Donitz was an unusual fellow of magnificent capability and disputed perspective. I truely look forward to your contribution. Had Donitz served the Allied side, I believe he would be revered as one of the world's leading naval leaders of all time. However, since he served Hitler, Germany lost, and since he was Germany's political leader for a short period, history's judgment is harsher because the Allies felt obligated to punish leaders responsible for WWII and all that occurred within it. It is also noteworthy that the judgment of German leadership at Nuremberg is well known, but the Japanese war criminals were strikingly handled mildly.
You research, and you decide.
Jack</HTML>
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Re: Grand Admiral Doenitz
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Re: Grand Admiral Doenitz
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Benoit Douville | 10/17/2001 03:48PM |
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Re: Grand Admiral Doenitz
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Jack | 10/19/2001 10:40AM |
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Re: Grand Admiral Doenitz
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Re: Grand Admiral Doenitz
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Re: Grand Admiral Doenitz
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Yuri IL\'IN | 10/22/2001 09:01PM |