General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: Haiti Sub wreck
Posted by:
David J. Schumacher
()
Date: November 24, 2000 09:43PM
<HTML>Steve
I\'ve copied my e-mails to \"reload\" the forum. I hope this helps. I\'ve grouped them by person and not conversation thread.
David J. Schumacher - Originator of inital question
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Ken Dunn
Hi Dave,
I can\'t tell from the photos you sent if it is a German U-boat for sure. To
be honest, I can\'t even tell if it is a sub, although I can\'t think of what
else it could be either. It seems to be the correct shape and proportions.
I have checked all of my sources and can\'t find a U-boat that was lost in
that area that is still unaccounted for. However, If you saw the Nova
special on U-869 you know that all U-boats were not sunk where the official
records say they were. Some of them lost around Haiti were lost in water so
deep no diver has ever verified that they are indeed where they are supposed
to be. However, as there is so much interest in WWII German subs I doubt
that is what it is.
Do the locals think it is a German sub? If so, any info on the approximate
date she was sunk will be of great help in trying to identify her. Also I
can\'t judge her length from the photo. Most German subs were from 220 to
250 feet long although there were exceptions. American subs were much
longer. Do you have an approximate length?
I can\'t tell if there is a deck gun or flak guns on the sub in the picture
but it doesn\'t look like it to me. If there are no flak (anti-aircraft)
guns mounted behind the conning tower, then it is probably not a WWII era
German sub. Some German subs didn\'t have deck guns but they almost all had
anti-aircraft guns mounted behind the conning tower. These ranged from a
single barrel 20mm gun to two or more multi-barreled guns of up to 37mm.
Also, I think Italian subs also operated in that area during the war and I
know nothing about them or how to research them. Have you tried writing to
the government of Haiti? There might be a Haitian government agency that
could help. If the Haitian military does not know there is a foreign sub on
their territory, they may research it for you.
Another possible source of help would be a local SCUBA shop. If they don\'t
already know about it, it will probably interest them enough for them to
find out about it. It would be a tourist attraction for them even in
shallow water. As I am a diver, I know that people will come from all over
to dive a sub. I have been inside a couple of them myself.
If you are thinking about diving it yourself, I hope you understand that sub
diving no matter how shallow the water is especially dangerous. The older
the sub, the more dangerous it is. You wouldn\'t think it would be this way
but almost everything attached to the walls and ceilings (including heavy
equipment) of WWII era subs generally falls down. The wood it is attached
to rots and the steal it is attached to rusts all the way through. What
doesn\'t fall down is just waiting for someone to touch it so it can fall on
top of them. It is also full of cables and pipes and any number of other
things to get tangled up in, not to mention the silt that covers up sharp
objects.
There is also the matter of unexploded ammo, torpedoes and torpedo
detonators. Some subs also carried mines. All of them also carried
scuttling charges which could have been armed. You can expect any torpedo
already loaded in a tube to contain a detonator that will probably still
work. Most of the other torpedoes would not have had their detonators
installed yet. Also note that most German subs had a few torpedoes stored
outside the pressure hull under the wooden deck (which should have rotted
off by now) in containers. The containers will probably have rusted through
by now perhaps leaving torpedoes in the sand next to the wreck. They also
had \"ready\" ammo lockers containing ammo for the deck gun outside the
pressure hull. I have also seen 88mm rounds from the ready locker lying in
the sand next to U-boats.
Some U-boats also carried one or more large glass containers packed in straw
that contained spare battery acid. I don\'t know if it would still be
dangerous but I sure wouldn\'t touch them. Also if there are air pockets
inside I wouldn\'t try to breathe the air. It could be toxic.
Unlike other ships, warships remain the property of their governments
forever. Other ships lost at sea can be claimed by anybody that finds them
as long as their owners have not made an attempt to salvage them. I am not
sure what the laws are for this one as it is almost on shore in Haiti, but
if it\'s German you can be sure the German government still claims ownership.
If there are bodies inside, it is a war grave. There is a German government
agency that can be contacted as to what to do with the remains if any are
found. If there are remains inside somewhere there are families who need to
know where their loved ones are.
Judging from the pictures you sent, that is such a beautiful spot it\'s hard
to understand how a WWII era sub could be there without everybody knowing
about it. Even if it is remote unless there is a problem with the Haitian
government I can\'t imagine some dive boat not stopping there on a regular
basis to see the sub. I love diving in the Caribbean. One day I would like
to retire there. I have dived Jamaica and the Bahamas and they were some of
the most beautiful dives I have made. The pace of life there is wonderfull.
If someone could row a small boat out there and take a picture of the
conning tower close-up it would be a big help. The subs of each country had
distinctly different conning towers.
Let me know what you think and perhaps we can figure out where to go from
there.
Regards,
Ken Dunn
-----Original Message-----
From: schumach [mailto:schumach@npwt.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 6:24 PM
To: Dunn, Kenny
Subject: Re: Sunken submarine at Jeremie, Haiti
Ken
212f is a standard shot
211f is a close up
209f is looking back at the building where 212 and 211 was taken
Thanks for you future effort.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: \"Dunn, Kenny\" <Kenny.Dunn@clt.sungardtrust.com>
To: <schumach@npwt.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 4:22 PM
Subject: Sunken submarine at Jeremie, Haiti
> Hi Dave,
>
> I would like to have a picture of the sub. I have a number of U-boat
books
> and might be able to help if it\'s a German sub. My dad was Third Engineer
> on the SS Cardonia when she was sunk by U-126 just off the coast of Haiti
> March 7, 1942. Dad survived but has since passed away. I have been
> researching U-126 & other German U-boats operating in that area for a
while.
> Perhaps I can help - no guarantees though.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ken Dunn
>
>
Hi Dave,
I would like to have a picture of the sub. I have a number of U-boat books
and might be able to help if it\'s a German sub. My dad was Third Engineer
on the SS Cardonia when she was sunk by U-126 just off the coast of Haiti
March 7, 1942. Dad survived but has since passed away. I have been
researching U-126 & other German U-boats operating in that area for a while.
Perhaps I can help - no guarantees though.
Regards,
Ken Dunn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Rick Mann
Hello everyone,
Is it possible that this is the US Sub Dorado? It disapeared from what is thought to have been friendly fire and was seen drifting and beached in the Carribean. It is a strange story that all of you should read. The Navy thinks that the bombs from a US Airplane killed all the crew without sinking the boat and the boat floated until it beached itself somewhere. There were reports about aircraft spotting it and it actually was used as a landmark by pilots. It would be real interesting if it was this boat, but one would think it would have been salvaged if it was the Dorado. Rick
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Please accept my apology as I in know way tried to insult you. You should probably learn to laugh at yourself sometimes as it does the soul good. I do it all the time and I also learned it is OK to be wrong. Rick
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Are the bow planes folded up?
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Harolds
Maybes its a monsters Daves?
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Rainer Burns
Hi David J.S.,
NO, NO. These remarks were not directed to you, but rather to
your namesake David Kirschbaum. Please note the little boxes and connecting
lines to the left of the subject heading. Like your line ends in the little
box next to what I wrote last. And mine ends next to what D.K. wrote - not
what you wrote last. See? Sorry I confused you. RB
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Hello Dave,
First of all, let me pull a little thorn out of your butt - so,
that you can sit down and relax a bit. Participants on this forum are happy,
nay eager to share their experience, knowledge etc about this subject. We are
also quite quick to gently rib a participant making bloopers. This happened to
you, also happened to me, and is no skin off our noses. We are here to
learn.
If you are here to espouse some theories devoid of a minimum of
factual requirement and get your nose out of joint, when called for it - I
would suggest for you to re-examine your attitude.
Regarding your repeated
reference to our alledged insults to you, I like to point out the following
statement by you: \"some of you people are undoubtedly the most illmannered
sons of bitches I\'ve met lately.\" We also make it a point on this forum to
address the person we are posting to by name. You do not feel this is
neccessary.
So, please do not talk to me about manners until you have
learned the basics of this subject yourself. And, if you do not mind, I\'d
rather not bite where you might want me to.
Not pleased, RB
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Hi Dave,
appreciate having that photo. Will see if we can identify the type.
Click on my name in blue on this posting for email address. Rgds, RB
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Steve Cooper
I saw an aerial photo of this wreck years ago, it is definitely a sub.
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
AT LAST! I saw a picture of that sub 15 years ago, taken by an OMS Missionary
and have been trying to learn its story. I think my first post on this board
was about it. Is the boat intact?
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From David Kirschbaum
I received three pictures. One shows the beach and slope above the cove where
the mysterious shape is located.
The other two show a long slim shadow
underwater, with something breaking water around midship. The shape is quite
close to a sandy beach, and the water doesn\'t appear to be very deep. There\'s
nothing visible to indicate it\'s a submarine; only the long slim shape with
that lump of something amidships.
I suspect a swimmer with fins and snorkle
could do a full examination of whatever it is; it\'s not 25 meters
offshore.
I\'d post the pictures somewhere, but I\'ve had quite enough of
insults from this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Rick,
Bite me.
If you have something useful to contribute, do so.
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Please send me a scan of that picture. I\'d appreciate it very much, and will
put it up on my Yahoo Album where others can find it.
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Antonio Veiga
Hi Dave
I am interested to know what submarine are you talking about.
I
think this area was frequented by U-Boats in WWII.
We don´t know the type of
sub, or even whether she is an U-Boat.
I don´t know if can help you, but
anyway I´ll try.
Please, can you e-mail me the picture?
Best Regards
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Michael Lowrey
Send me the photo to this address and I will see what I can make of it.
Thanks in advance,
Michael Lowrey
Davis,
I don\'t know offhand whicht submarine this is. However, there are a
few things that can eliminated:
1. There is nothing to suggest that the
wreck is that of a WWI or WWII German U-boat sunk during the wars.
2.
Haiti, one of the world\'s poorrest countries, doesn\'t operate
submarines.
So why then would a submarine end up in Haiti? My best guess
would be that it was towed there to be broken up and possible got lose and
land aground where it did. Know of any ship scrapping businesses in the area?
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
</HTML>
I\'ve copied my e-mails to \"reload\" the forum. I hope this helps. I\'ve grouped them by person and not conversation thread.
David J. Schumacher - Originator of inital question
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Ken Dunn
Hi Dave,
I can\'t tell from the photos you sent if it is a German U-boat for sure. To
be honest, I can\'t even tell if it is a sub, although I can\'t think of what
else it could be either. It seems to be the correct shape and proportions.
I have checked all of my sources and can\'t find a U-boat that was lost in
that area that is still unaccounted for. However, If you saw the Nova
special on U-869 you know that all U-boats were not sunk where the official
records say they were. Some of them lost around Haiti were lost in water so
deep no diver has ever verified that they are indeed where they are supposed
to be. However, as there is so much interest in WWII German subs I doubt
that is what it is.
Do the locals think it is a German sub? If so, any info on the approximate
date she was sunk will be of great help in trying to identify her. Also I
can\'t judge her length from the photo. Most German subs were from 220 to
250 feet long although there were exceptions. American subs were much
longer. Do you have an approximate length?
I can\'t tell if there is a deck gun or flak guns on the sub in the picture
but it doesn\'t look like it to me. If there are no flak (anti-aircraft)
guns mounted behind the conning tower, then it is probably not a WWII era
German sub. Some German subs didn\'t have deck guns but they almost all had
anti-aircraft guns mounted behind the conning tower. These ranged from a
single barrel 20mm gun to two or more multi-barreled guns of up to 37mm.
Also, I think Italian subs also operated in that area during the war and I
know nothing about them or how to research them. Have you tried writing to
the government of Haiti? There might be a Haitian government agency that
could help. If the Haitian military does not know there is a foreign sub on
their territory, they may research it for you.
Another possible source of help would be a local SCUBA shop. If they don\'t
already know about it, it will probably interest them enough for them to
find out about it. It would be a tourist attraction for them even in
shallow water. As I am a diver, I know that people will come from all over
to dive a sub. I have been inside a couple of them myself.
If you are thinking about diving it yourself, I hope you understand that sub
diving no matter how shallow the water is especially dangerous. The older
the sub, the more dangerous it is. You wouldn\'t think it would be this way
but almost everything attached to the walls and ceilings (including heavy
equipment) of WWII era subs generally falls down. The wood it is attached
to rots and the steal it is attached to rusts all the way through. What
doesn\'t fall down is just waiting for someone to touch it so it can fall on
top of them. It is also full of cables and pipes and any number of other
things to get tangled up in, not to mention the silt that covers up sharp
objects.
There is also the matter of unexploded ammo, torpedoes and torpedo
detonators. Some subs also carried mines. All of them also carried
scuttling charges which could have been armed. You can expect any torpedo
already loaded in a tube to contain a detonator that will probably still
work. Most of the other torpedoes would not have had their detonators
installed yet. Also note that most German subs had a few torpedoes stored
outside the pressure hull under the wooden deck (which should have rotted
off by now) in containers. The containers will probably have rusted through
by now perhaps leaving torpedoes in the sand next to the wreck. They also
had \"ready\" ammo lockers containing ammo for the deck gun outside the
pressure hull. I have also seen 88mm rounds from the ready locker lying in
the sand next to U-boats.
Some U-boats also carried one or more large glass containers packed in straw
that contained spare battery acid. I don\'t know if it would still be
dangerous but I sure wouldn\'t touch them. Also if there are air pockets
inside I wouldn\'t try to breathe the air. It could be toxic.
Unlike other ships, warships remain the property of their governments
forever. Other ships lost at sea can be claimed by anybody that finds them
as long as their owners have not made an attempt to salvage them. I am not
sure what the laws are for this one as it is almost on shore in Haiti, but
if it\'s German you can be sure the German government still claims ownership.
If there are bodies inside, it is a war grave. There is a German government
agency that can be contacted as to what to do with the remains if any are
found. If there are remains inside somewhere there are families who need to
know where their loved ones are.
Judging from the pictures you sent, that is such a beautiful spot it\'s hard
to understand how a WWII era sub could be there without everybody knowing
about it. Even if it is remote unless there is a problem with the Haitian
government I can\'t imagine some dive boat not stopping there on a regular
basis to see the sub. I love diving in the Caribbean. One day I would like
to retire there. I have dived Jamaica and the Bahamas and they were some of
the most beautiful dives I have made. The pace of life there is wonderfull.
If someone could row a small boat out there and take a picture of the
conning tower close-up it would be a big help. The subs of each country had
distinctly different conning towers.
Let me know what you think and perhaps we can figure out where to go from
there.
Regards,
Ken Dunn
-----Original Message-----
From: schumach [mailto:schumach@npwt.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 6:24 PM
To: Dunn, Kenny
Subject: Re: Sunken submarine at Jeremie, Haiti
Ken
212f is a standard shot
211f is a close up
209f is looking back at the building where 212 and 211 was taken
Thanks for you future effort.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: \"Dunn, Kenny\" <Kenny.Dunn@clt.sungardtrust.com>
To: <schumach@npwt.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 4:22 PM
Subject: Sunken submarine at Jeremie, Haiti
> Hi Dave,
>
> I would like to have a picture of the sub. I have a number of U-boat
books
> and might be able to help if it\'s a German sub. My dad was Third Engineer
> on the SS Cardonia when she was sunk by U-126 just off the coast of Haiti
> March 7, 1942. Dad survived but has since passed away. I have been
> researching U-126 & other German U-boats operating in that area for a
while.
> Perhaps I can help - no guarantees though.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ken Dunn
>
>
Hi Dave,
I would like to have a picture of the sub. I have a number of U-boat books
and might be able to help if it\'s a German sub. My dad was Third Engineer
on the SS Cardonia when she was sunk by U-126 just off the coast of Haiti
March 7, 1942. Dad survived but has since passed away. I have been
researching U-126 & other German U-boats operating in that area for a while.
Perhaps I can help - no guarantees though.
Regards,
Ken Dunn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Rick Mann
Hello everyone,
Is it possible that this is the US Sub Dorado? It disapeared from what is thought to have been friendly fire and was seen drifting and beached in the Carribean. It is a strange story that all of you should read. The Navy thinks that the bombs from a US Airplane killed all the crew without sinking the boat and the boat floated until it beached itself somewhere. There were reports about aircraft spotting it and it actually was used as a landmark by pilots. It would be real interesting if it was this boat, but one would think it would have been salvaged if it was the Dorado. Rick
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Please accept my apology as I in know way tried to insult you. You should probably learn to laugh at yourself sometimes as it does the soul good. I do it all the time and I also learned it is OK to be wrong. Rick
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Are the bow planes folded up?
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Harolds
Maybes its a monsters Daves?
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Rainer Burns
Hi David J.S.,
NO, NO. These remarks were not directed to you, but rather to
your namesake David Kirschbaum. Please note the little boxes and connecting
lines to the left of the subject heading. Like your line ends in the little
box next to what I wrote last. And mine ends next to what D.K. wrote - not
what you wrote last. See? Sorry I confused you. RB
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Hello Dave,
First of all, let me pull a little thorn out of your butt - so,
that you can sit down and relax a bit. Participants on this forum are happy,
nay eager to share their experience, knowledge etc about this subject. We are
also quite quick to gently rib a participant making bloopers. This happened to
you, also happened to me, and is no skin off our noses. We are here to
learn.
If you are here to espouse some theories devoid of a minimum of
factual requirement and get your nose out of joint, when called for it - I
would suggest for you to re-examine your attitude.
Regarding your repeated
reference to our alledged insults to you, I like to point out the following
statement by you: \"some of you people are undoubtedly the most illmannered
sons of bitches I\'ve met lately.\" We also make it a point on this forum to
address the person we are posting to by name. You do not feel this is
neccessary.
So, please do not talk to me about manners until you have
learned the basics of this subject yourself. And, if you do not mind, I\'d
rather not bite where you might want me to.
Not pleased, RB
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Hi Dave,
appreciate having that photo. Will see if we can identify the type.
Click on my name in blue on this posting for email address. Rgds, RB
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Steve Cooper
I saw an aerial photo of this wreck years ago, it is definitely a sub.
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
AT LAST! I saw a picture of that sub 15 years ago, taken by an OMS Missionary
and have been trying to learn its story. I think my first post on this board
was about it. Is the boat intact?
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From David Kirschbaum
I received three pictures. One shows the beach and slope above the cove where
the mysterious shape is located.
The other two show a long slim shadow
underwater, with something breaking water around midship. The shape is quite
close to a sandy beach, and the water doesn\'t appear to be very deep. There\'s
nothing visible to indicate it\'s a submarine; only the long slim shape with
that lump of something amidships.
I suspect a swimmer with fins and snorkle
could do a full examination of whatever it is; it\'s not 25 meters
offshore.
I\'d post the pictures somewhere, but I\'ve had quite enough of
insults from this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Rick,
Bite me.
If you have something useful to contribute, do so.
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
Please send me a scan of that picture. I\'d appreciate it very much, and will
put it up on my Yahoo Album where others can find it.
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Antonio Veiga
Hi Dave
I am interested to know what submarine are you talking about.
I
think this area was frequented by U-Boats in WWII.
We don´t know the type of
sub, or even whether she is an U-Boat.
I don´t know if can help you, but
anyway I´ll try.
Please, can you e-mail me the picture?
Best Regards
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Michael Lowrey
Send me the photo to this address and I will see what I can make of it.
Thanks in advance,
Michael Lowrey
Davis,
I don\'t know offhand whicht submarine this is. However, there are a
few things that can eliminated:
1. There is nothing to suggest that the
wreck is that of a WWI or WWII German U-boat sunk during the wars.
2.
Haiti, one of the world\'s poorrest countries, doesn\'t operate
submarines.
So why then would a submarine end up in Haiti? My best guess
would be that it was towed there to be broken up and possible got lose and
land aground where it did. Know of any ship scrapping businesses in the area?
----------------------------------------------------------------[uboat.net]
Sent by Phorum 3.1 RC3 [phorum.org]
</HTML>
| Subject | Written By | Posted |
|---|---|---|
Haiti Sub wreck
|
Steve Cooper | 11/24/2000 03:09AM |
|
RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
David J. Schumacher | 11/24/2000 09:43PM |
|
RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
Steve Cooper | 11/25/2000 04:46PM |
|
RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
Rick Man | 11/26/2000 02:34PM |
|
Re: RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
Ben Lee | 07/16/2021 05:07PM |
|
Re: RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
karly | 10/23/2007 01:24PM |
|
Re: RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
raoul | 07/12/2012 05:26PM |
|
Re: RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
Regifer | 10/10/2021 05:41PM |
|
RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
Ted A. | 11/26/2000 08:25PM |
|
RE: Haiti Sub wreck
|
David J. Schumacher | 11/26/2000 09:03PM |
|
Re: Haiti Sub wreck
|
Paul Lawton | 10/23/2007 02:56PM |
|
Re: Haiti Sub wreck
|
DanOdenweller | 10/23/2007 10:06PM |
|
Re: Haiti Sub wreck
|
ROBERT M. | 10/24/2007 08:43AM |
|
Re: Haiti Sub wreck
|
Tom in Haiti | 12/11/2021 05:57AM |
|
Re: Haiti Sub wreck
|
Tom in Haiti | 12/11/2021 06:05AM |