General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: U-boat crews etc - Stalin
Posted by:
John Griffiths
()
Date: April 23, 2001 03:14PM
<HTML>Yuri and all other interested parties,
The comparisons asked for do not really allow for the simplicity of a \'straight\' answer. It is a complex area! Let\'s look at Russia first.
May I just remind people of the \'mind set\' of Russia? No western country counted on any Soviet aid. It was generally believed that Russia, if drawn into the fight with Germany, would not fight for democracy nor for the sanctity of any of the treaties made. It was widely believed that - as the 1919 treaties and settlements punished Russia as much as Germany - the Russian aim would be to take Germany\'s place in Eastern Europe and not defend any independent states. During Stalin\'s purges, he had nearly all of his marshals and generals murdered or put into prison. How could the Soviets therefore mount any form of successful campaign with its officer corps out of the way?
Furthermore, Russia could not attack Germany withour crossing the borders with Poland or Rumania - both of whom refused to allow passage to Russia - and the Poles did this more rigorously than the Rumanians. Where Poland was concerned, the Russians did not forget this.
The Czech-Soviet treaty of 1935 committed Russia to support Czechoslovakia only if France did - which the Soviets knew France would not. Therefore they could make grand promises of aid - and they did - knowing full well that any blame could be pushed back to the West if things got too hot! In terms of political skulduggery, the Russians played \'provider\' in the knowledge that any aid requested of them would never arrive - but would look, to the beleaugered countries at least, as if it was on its way. By the time it would have - if ever - then the \'provider\' would suddenly become an occupying army! The West, meantime, would get blamed....
Russia, at this time, had also not made any serious preporations for war. Whilst Soviet writers and \'intelligentsia\' state that the Red Army had up to thirty divisions mobilised, it has proven to be a half truth - Russia did not have the technical expertise nor experience to do anything but light damage to Germany at this time. The Russian aim was far more sinister - it planned to seize some of Poland, which it had long looked at with covetous eyes.. Unlike the West, which allows a great part of its wartime doctrines to be made available, Russia still refuses this freedom of information so most statements made are informed guesswork. What you don\'t know you can\'t prove!
The use of the Russian intelligentsia - its writers such as that suggested by Yuri - alleged that the West aimed to switch German aggression against Russia. Many writers allege that the West would also join forces with Germany. There is absolutely no proof of this! If anything, the Communists imagined that the \'Worker State\' was a target as the capitalists were scared of Russia and what she had \'achieved\'. By that time however, communism hads lost its appeal - Russian communism itself offered the best propoganda against communism - offereing tyrrany, starvation and inefficiency to its own countrymen. There was no-one at that time in the West who feared Russia.
To return to the question in conclusion. Stalin, you may recall, signed a pact with Nazi Germany in 1939. One of the parts of this pact was the division of Poland.
The question as to Stalin / Hitler therefore cannot be an equal one. Both were dictators yes - but in terms of whether they were alike is something I would suggest is not as simple as to give a straight answer to! If I was asked I would say they had the same aim and applied the same measures and methods. Hitler, however, had the benefits of the best brains in Europe at his disposal, the means of production and the backing of his people.
Stalin did not have that for many years - by which time his popularity was swelled by the invasion of Russia and so gave him a political position to work from. Uniting a country is so much easier if there is an outside threat.
This is condensed but I hope answers your question. I believe Yuri will have a quite different slant on the issue!
Aye,
John</HTML>
The comparisons asked for do not really allow for the simplicity of a \'straight\' answer. It is a complex area! Let\'s look at Russia first.
May I just remind people of the \'mind set\' of Russia? No western country counted on any Soviet aid. It was generally believed that Russia, if drawn into the fight with Germany, would not fight for democracy nor for the sanctity of any of the treaties made. It was widely believed that - as the 1919 treaties and settlements punished Russia as much as Germany - the Russian aim would be to take Germany\'s place in Eastern Europe and not defend any independent states. During Stalin\'s purges, he had nearly all of his marshals and generals murdered or put into prison. How could the Soviets therefore mount any form of successful campaign with its officer corps out of the way?
Furthermore, Russia could not attack Germany withour crossing the borders with Poland or Rumania - both of whom refused to allow passage to Russia - and the Poles did this more rigorously than the Rumanians. Where Poland was concerned, the Russians did not forget this.
The Czech-Soviet treaty of 1935 committed Russia to support Czechoslovakia only if France did - which the Soviets knew France would not. Therefore they could make grand promises of aid - and they did - knowing full well that any blame could be pushed back to the West if things got too hot! In terms of political skulduggery, the Russians played \'provider\' in the knowledge that any aid requested of them would never arrive - but would look, to the beleaugered countries at least, as if it was on its way. By the time it would have - if ever - then the \'provider\' would suddenly become an occupying army! The West, meantime, would get blamed....
Russia, at this time, had also not made any serious preporations for war. Whilst Soviet writers and \'intelligentsia\' state that the Red Army had up to thirty divisions mobilised, it has proven to be a half truth - Russia did not have the technical expertise nor experience to do anything but light damage to Germany at this time. The Russian aim was far more sinister - it planned to seize some of Poland, which it had long looked at with covetous eyes.. Unlike the West, which allows a great part of its wartime doctrines to be made available, Russia still refuses this freedom of information so most statements made are informed guesswork. What you don\'t know you can\'t prove!
The use of the Russian intelligentsia - its writers such as that suggested by Yuri - alleged that the West aimed to switch German aggression against Russia. Many writers allege that the West would also join forces with Germany. There is absolutely no proof of this! If anything, the Communists imagined that the \'Worker State\' was a target as the capitalists were scared of Russia and what she had \'achieved\'. By that time however, communism hads lost its appeal - Russian communism itself offered the best propoganda against communism - offereing tyrrany, starvation and inefficiency to its own countrymen. There was no-one at that time in the West who feared Russia.
To return to the question in conclusion. Stalin, you may recall, signed a pact with Nazi Germany in 1939. One of the parts of this pact was the division of Poland.
The question as to Stalin / Hitler therefore cannot be an equal one. Both were dictators yes - but in terms of whether they were alike is something I would suggest is not as simple as to give a straight answer to! If I was asked I would say they had the same aim and applied the same measures and methods. Hitler, however, had the benefits of the best brains in Europe at his disposal, the means of production and the backing of his people.
Stalin did not have that for many years - by which time his popularity was swelled by the invasion of Russia and so gave him a political position to work from. Uniting a country is so much easier if there is an outside threat.
This is condensed but I hope answers your question. I believe Yuri will have a quite different slant on the issue!
Aye,
John</HTML>
