Technology and Operations
This forum is for discussing technological & operational matters pertaining to U-boats.
Re: XXI doctrine
Posted by:
Sniper
()
Date: April 25, 2002 07:24PM
SuperKraut
Just on your assumption that the germans would have introduced 'teardrop' shaped sub hulls.
The Germans did conduct alot of hydronamic reserch and they DID build a 'teardrop' or 'Albacore' hull submarine during the war.This was the 'DELPHIN' mini-sub built in late 44 early 45.It was a test bed for a closed-cycle mini-sub and never went into production.It looked like a miniature version of a modern sub with a bulbous bow,circular parallel mid-body and tapered stern with cruciform control surfaces and twin contra-rotating propellors.It was 5.6 m long,1 m wide and weighed 2.5 tons with a one man crew.
Now after WW2 the Americans,among others, were very interested in the type XXI and its hydronamic's.They found out that the 'convential' hull of the XXI was dynamically unstable at speeds over 12 knots and had a horendous turning circle.When the Americans reviewed German hydronamic research they found that the Germans had done virtually no work on the aspect of high speed stability and control of their new U-Boats.Indeed the Americans found that German experts were very proud of their hydronamic research and that the type XXI's shape (very fish like with a long narrow hull,deeper that wide) would be very good hydronamically (just beacuse it was so fish-like...i.e if it looks like one of natures solutions..it must be right...a bit like saying that airplanes should have flapping wings).There is no evidence that the Germans had planned to use 'teardrop' hulls in their submarines.Even designs which were thought up After it had become clear that any U-Boat would have to operate underwater ALL the time were still convential hulls,not a 'teardrop' hull in sight.
The only exception was a 'private' design study done by BMW (i think..i don't have the reference material in front of me now) for a sub powered by 2 'closed-cycle' E-Boat engines.Its hull loks like a modern 'body of revolution' hull...indeed it looks like an enlarged torpedo with a streamlined 'sail' structure on top.This design was proposed as an alternative to the 'Walter' U-boats and would have been a small coastal design with 2 torpedo tudes with 2 reloads.I'll post the full technical data on this design tomorrow.
Despite what i've posted about the Germans technical prowess at sub buliding for my money the German Navy lacked a certain inventiveness and was inherently conservative.Donitz was guilty of this as much as anybody an i've discovered an interesting annecdote about this.
In 1938 or 1939 Donitz tried out his 'wolf-pack' tactics for the first time in the Baltic during naval excercises.The experiment worked well and the U-boats involved had little trouble finding and tracking the convoys set up for them to hunt.They sucessfully hung onto the convoys and radio'ed in their comrades and easily penetrated the escort screen at night.When Donitz and his staff reviewed the results of the excercise they were justifiably proud and content with the operation.
However there was a fly in the ointment...a young officer spoke up and said that the 'wolf-pack' tactics could be countered by radar equiped ships.The officer pointed out that the new radar fitted to the pocket battleship 'Graf Spee' could detect surfaced subs at night a several kilometers.This officers opinions were ignored and radar equipped ships eventually were a major part of the countering of the U-Boats.
Rgrds
Sniper.
Just on your assumption that the germans would have introduced 'teardrop' shaped sub hulls.
The Germans did conduct alot of hydronamic reserch and they DID build a 'teardrop' or 'Albacore' hull submarine during the war.This was the 'DELPHIN' mini-sub built in late 44 early 45.It was a test bed for a closed-cycle mini-sub and never went into production.It looked like a miniature version of a modern sub with a bulbous bow,circular parallel mid-body and tapered stern with cruciform control surfaces and twin contra-rotating propellors.It was 5.6 m long,1 m wide and weighed 2.5 tons with a one man crew.
Now after WW2 the Americans,among others, were very interested in the type XXI and its hydronamic's.They found out that the 'convential' hull of the XXI was dynamically unstable at speeds over 12 knots and had a horendous turning circle.When the Americans reviewed German hydronamic research they found that the Germans had done virtually no work on the aspect of high speed stability and control of their new U-Boats.Indeed the Americans found that German experts were very proud of their hydronamic research and that the type XXI's shape (very fish like with a long narrow hull,deeper that wide) would be very good hydronamically (just beacuse it was so fish-like...i.e if it looks like one of natures solutions..it must be right...a bit like saying that airplanes should have flapping wings).There is no evidence that the Germans had planned to use 'teardrop' hulls in their submarines.Even designs which were thought up After it had become clear that any U-Boat would have to operate underwater ALL the time were still convential hulls,not a 'teardrop' hull in sight.
The only exception was a 'private' design study done by BMW (i think..i don't have the reference material in front of me now) for a sub powered by 2 'closed-cycle' E-Boat engines.Its hull loks like a modern 'body of revolution' hull...indeed it looks like an enlarged torpedo with a streamlined 'sail' structure on top.This design was proposed as an alternative to the 'Walter' U-boats and would have been a small coastal design with 2 torpedo tudes with 2 reloads.I'll post the full technical data on this design tomorrow.
Despite what i've posted about the Germans technical prowess at sub buliding for my money the German Navy lacked a certain inventiveness and was inherently conservative.Donitz was guilty of this as much as anybody an i've discovered an interesting annecdote about this.
In 1938 or 1939 Donitz tried out his 'wolf-pack' tactics for the first time in the Baltic during naval excercises.The experiment worked well and the U-boats involved had little trouble finding and tracking the convoys set up for them to hunt.They sucessfully hung onto the convoys and radio'ed in their comrades and easily penetrated the escort screen at night.When Donitz and his staff reviewed the results of the excercise they were justifiably proud and content with the operation.
However there was a fly in the ointment...a young officer spoke up and said that the 'wolf-pack' tactics could be countered by radar equiped ships.The officer pointed out that the new radar fitted to the pocket battleship 'Graf Spee' could detect surfaced subs at night a several kilometers.This officers opinions were ignored and radar equipped ships eventually were a major part of the countering of the U-Boats.
Rgrds
Sniper.
Subject | Written By | Posted |
---|---|---|
Type XXI Flak Turrets | Tim Rossiter | 04/18/2002 11:50AM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | Woody | 04/19/2002 08:38AM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | joe brandt | 04/19/2002 07:41PM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | Woody | 04/20/2002 12:18AM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | joe brandt | 04/20/2002 06:59PM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | Woody | 04/21/2002 06:56PM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | joe brandt | 04/22/2002 01:06AM |
XXI doctrine | SuperKraut | 04/22/2002 07:36PM |
Re: XXI test on U-37 | ludovic | 04/23/2002 06:27AM |
Re: XXI doctrine | Sniper | 04/25/2002 07:24PM |
Re: XXI doctrine | J.T. McDaniel | 04/25/2002 09:13PM |
Comments | SuperKraut | 04/26/2002 11:19AM |
Re: XXI doctrine | Sniper | 04/27/2002 06:25PM |
Closed cycle Diesel engines | SuperKraut | 04/27/2002 09:00PM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | joe brandt | 04/23/2002 08:25PM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | Woody | 04/23/2002 10:29PM |
Re: Type XXI Flak Turrets | joe brandt | 04/24/2002 12:06AM |