General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
RE: help for a landlubber
Posted by:
John Griffiths
()
Date: August 17, 2001 02:27PM
<HTML> Tom,
Could I resist this? No, I couldn\'t!
>>I\\\'d like to know what the term \\\"heave-to\\\" means. In the context I\\\'m speaking of, a destroyer captain is speaking to his Exec after being told to expect gale force ten winds. He says \\\". . . in a force ten we should heave-to, but we can\\\'t. Not enough fuel.\\\"<<
You are right, Tom. Heaving to in storm force winds means putting the weather ahead of the ship and keeping enough power on to maintain steerage way. In another sense, it means stopping - as in a warship challenging a vessel to \'heave to or I fire\'.
>>Later in the chapter, the captain stated that so long as the wind and the sea stayed on the beam things would be OK, but if the helmsman relaxed and allowed the ship\\\'s head to veer to starboard, the sea would be on the ship\\\'s quarter and it would lose control, swing stern to sea and get pooped.<<
On the beam? Holy God! Beam seas are the most dangerous of all! If a ship gets into what the techies call a \'synchronised rolling moment\', she starts to pendulum. This is okay if she swings, say 45 degrees port and 50 degress starboard - but if she starts doing 50/50, she begins to lose her stability and there is little that can be done about that. She\'ll start to pendulum to and fro until she gets a big enough sea to topple her into a capsize moment. She then goes over. Look at \'The Perfect Storm\' when the \'Andrea Gail\' goes over and returns back to an even keel. She was previously rolling her guts out! The whole basis of a ship is centred on her precise central point. It\'s called a GM - but what exactly that means fails me at the moment. If her GM is in any way dubious, you don\'t turn. You run with the weather. Cargo shifting, fuel and water status - they all affect the design GM.
Quartering seas result in a corkscrewing movement which if fine if you have way on( speed, movement ) - if somewhat uncomfortable. When you lose way, pooping happens - this is the result of the sea overtaking the vessel and bearing its weight down on her, so the next sea swamps her. The opposite of this is to scend, where the ship\'s speed is too fast to match the weather and she drives herself under. In both cases, this can be avoided by a good skipper who knows his ship.
>>Once again, I am assuming that the the wind and sea is on the ship\\\'s port, parallel to the centerline, or beam, of the destroyer. I interpret the captain\\\'s statement as any turn toward starboard would put the ship\\\'s stern port quarter toward the waves and cause a loss of control, correct? <<
Good ship handlers wait for a short lull in the weather before pouring the power on in a full turn. The risk comes if she hasn\'t enough power to turn or if she mistakenly sniffs the weather side rather than turning into the lee of the weather. In landsmen\'s terms, this means that if you\'re going to make a turn in heavy weather you have to wait for the right moment and then swing her with the weather to take advantage of the ship\'s size and her power/weight. Losing this advantage leads to making possibly the last mistake you will ever make!
I spent 20 years at sea, a lot of it on small ships. The finest sea boats I ever served on were two Dutch built Salvage tugs which shrugged off heavy weather like water off a duck\'s back. The worst vessel I ever sailed in was a coastal cargo boat - in which I did one rough weather voyage through Biscay and left her when we got to Gibraltar. That was a rough, nervous ride - trust me! Warships, as a rule, did not have the commercial weight to be at sea in heavy weather and invariably took a lee somewhere - unless you were caught out.
Also, I had considerable experience - and still have my qualifications - in small fast rescue boats. Again, I was crew on the local lifeboat at Trearddur Bay in Anglesey, which was a 16 foot long \'D\' class - and she was capable in up to Force 7-8 dependant on the Coxswain. She had a single 40hp outboard.
Other boats. These were usually rigid inflatables but I also qualified in small fast non-rigid inflatables. In all cases, boat handling is always a matter of prudence. You read the sea, you smell the wind - and you act accordingly. If you make one mistake, you lose either control ( cavitation, aeration of the sea resulting in prop slip and loss of power ) or you get \'wind tied\'. This means that your steerage is replaced by a cushion of air under the keel - and over you go! They flip really easily!
In short, the best seas are right ahead or right astern, neither of which are not without danger, however. Beam seas are fine - but you always have one eye on the weather and the other on the Inclonometer!
Hope this helps?
As for the other question posed by someone else stating \'heave to and trice up\' - tricing pennants were used on lifeboats / ship\'s boats to hold them in to the ship\'s side. If I got that order I would think it meant she was going to ride out the weather and all should be secured throughout. It is not, I think, a UK Naval or Merchant Naval term so I could be wrong!
Aye,
John</HTML>
Could I resist this? No, I couldn\'t!
>>I\\\'d like to know what the term \\\"heave-to\\\" means. In the context I\\\'m speaking of, a destroyer captain is speaking to his Exec after being told to expect gale force ten winds. He says \\\". . . in a force ten we should heave-to, but we can\\\'t. Not enough fuel.\\\"<<
You are right, Tom. Heaving to in storm force winds means putting the weather ahead of the ship and keeping enough power on to maintain steerage way. In another sense, it means stopping - as in a warship challenging a vessel to \'heave to or I fire\'.
>>Later in the chapter, the captain stated that so long as the wind and the sea stayed on the beam things would be OK, but if the helmsman relaxed and allowed the ship\\\'s head to veer to starboard, the sea would be on the ship\\\'s quarter and it would lose control, swing stern to sea and get pooped.<<
On the beam? Holy God! Beam seas are the most dangerous of all! If a ship gets into what the techies call a \'synchronised rolling moment\', she starts to pendulum. This is okay if she swings, say 45 degrees port and 50 degress starboard - but if she starts doing 50/50, she begins to lose her stability and there is little that can be done about that. She\'ll start to pendulum to and fro until she gets a big enough sea to topple her into a capsize moment. She then goes over. Look at \'The Perfect Storm\' when the \'Andrea Gail\' goes over and returns back to an even keel. She was previously rolling her guts out! The whole basis of a ship is centred on her precise central point. It\'s called a GM - but what exactly that means fails me at the moment. If her GM is in any way dubious, you don\'t turn. You run with the weather. Cargo shifting, fuel and water status - they all affect the design GM.
Quartering seas result in a corkscrewing movement which if fine if you have way on( speed, movement ) - if somewhat uncomfortable. When you lose way, pooping happens - this is the result of the sea overtaking the vessel and bearing its weight down on her, so the next sea swamps her. The opposite of this is to scend, where the ship\'s speed is too fast to match the weather and she drives herself under. In both cases, this can be avoided by a good skipper who knows his ship.
>>Once again, I am assuming that the the wind and sea is on the ship\\\'s port, parallel to the centerline, or beam, of the destroyer. I interpret the captain\\\'s statement as any turn toward starboard would put the ship\\\'s stern port quarter toward the waves and cause a loss of control, correct? <<
Good ship handlers wait for a short lull in the weather before pouring the power on in a full turn. The risk comes if she hasn\'t enough power to turn or if she mistakenly sniffs the weather side rather than turning into the lee of the weather. In landsmen\'s terms, this means that if you\'re going to make a turn in heavy weather you have to wait for the right moment and then swing her with the weather to take advantage of the ship\'s size and her power/weight. Losing this advantage leads to making possibly the last mistake you will ever make!
I spent 20 years at sea, a lot of it on small ships. The finest sea boats I ever served on were two Dutch built Salvage tugs which shrugged off heavy weather like water off a duck\'s back. The worst vessel I ever sailed in was a coastal cargo boat - in which I did one rough weather voyage through Biscay and left her when we got to Gibraltar. That was a rough, nervous ride - trust me! Warships, as a rule, did not have the commercial weight to be at sea in heavy weather and invariably took a lee somewhere - unless you were caught out.
Also, I had considerable experience - and still have my qualifications - in small fast rescue boats. Again, I was crew on the local lifeboat at Trearddur Bay in Anglesey, which was a 16 foot long \'D\' class - and she was capable in up to Force 7-8 dependant on the Coxswain. She had a single 40hp outboard.
Other boats. These were usually rigid inflatables but I also qualified in small fast non-rigid inflatables. In all cases, boat handling is always a matter of prudence. You read the sea, you smell the wind - and you act accordingly. If you make one mistake, you lose either control ( cavitation, aeration of the sea resulting in prop slip and loss of power ) or you get \'wind tied\'. This means that your steerage is replaced by a cushion of air under the keel - and over you go! They flip really easily!
In short, the best seas are right ahead or right astern, neither of which are not without danger, however. Beam seas are fine - but you always have one eye on the weather and the other on the Inclonometer!
Hope this helps?
As for the other question posed by someone else stating \'heave to and trice up\' - tricing pennants were used on lifeboats / ship\'s boats to hold them in to the ship\'s side. If I got that order I would think it meant she was going to ride out the weather and all should be secured throughout. It is not, I think, a UK Naval or Merchant Naval term so I could be wrong!
Aye,
John</HTML>
| Subject | Written By | Posted |
|---|---|---|
help for a landlubber
|
Tom Iwanski | 08/16/2001 08:21PM |
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RE: help for a landlubber
|
walter M | 08/16/2001 09:17PM |
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RE: help for a landlubber
|
Will | 08/16/2001 10:01PM |
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RE: help for a landlubber
|
Malcolm Cowie | 08/17/2001 04:50AM |
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RE: help for a landlubber
|
Hank | 08/17/2001 01:34PM |
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RE: help for a landlubber
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parade | 08/17/2001 02:34PM |
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RE: help for a landlubber
|
Rainer Bruns | 08/17/2001 04:35PM |
|
RE: help for a landlubber
|
J.T. McDaniel | 08/17/2001 10:56PM |
|
RE: help for a landlubber
|
Hank | 08/19/2001 04:22PM |
|
RE: help for a landlubber
|
John Griffiths | 08/17/2001 02:27PM |
|
RE: help for a landlubber
|
Rainer Bruns | 08/17/2001 04:27PM |
|
RE: help for a landlubber
|
John Griffiths | 08/17/2001 08:09PM |
|
RE: help for a landlubber
|
Tom Iwanski | 08/17/2001 06:00PM |
|
RE: help for a landlubber
|
Antonio Veiga | 08/17/2001 05:56PM |
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RE: help for a landlubber
|
Takeo | 08/18/2001 03:42PM |