Movies and Films
This is the forum for Movie and Film discussions. Again, our topic is naval warfare in WWII for the most part.
Nazism-Hollywood style
Posted by:
Clark
()
Date: July 18, 2001 03:13AM
<HTML>I want to discuss the top of the portrayal of Nazis in the movies.
Nazis do make great bad guys. Their image has graced many great films. Some films are action adventure epics like the Von Ryan Express and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others are deep sentiments on the atrocities of Europe like Schindler\'s List. The neo-Nazis are also represented on celluloid like American History X and Romper Stomper( I know it was made in Australia but bear with me).
Recently, we have been outraged by the portrayal of U-boat sailors in U-571. It\'s no secret that the director wanted the German sailors to be identified with Nazi bad guys. No image better portrays that than the machine gunning of survivors scene. Remember, Mostow said that U-boat sailors were \"hardcore Nazis\" and believed that Germany would \"take over the world.\" But I wonder, wouldn\'t U-571 be a great film for recruiting Nazis?
Think about it.
This movie leans heavily towards making the Nazis look good and the Americans look bad. The crew of the U-571 are competent and professional. The crew of the S-33 are cold and rebellious.
To beat a dead horse, lets take the scene were the U-571 shoots the British survivors and the scene were the S-33 boards the U-571.
When the Captain of the U-571 orders the survivors the British steamer to be shot, the crewman at the machine gun seems shocked. He turns toward the captain and shakes his head no. The captain explains that letting the survivors go could be risky. His final words sum it up \"Get on with it.\" Granted the U-boat crew shows no emotion at the death of the British crew (unlike Das Boot). But the German crew act like they don\'t do this all the time.
Now the Americans are far more ruthless. As I said before in another post, the Americans are deliberately misleading the crew on the U-571. They disguise their sub as a U-boat and wear German uniforms. For the sole purpose of getting the U-boat crew to drop their guard and invite the Americans on to their decks.
Ya know? It\'s one thing to submerge underwater and use that as camouflage to sneak up on a enemy steamer that is running supplies to your enemy. It\'s quite another thing, when you tell lies and tell your enemy that you are on their side. Remember the last words one of the U-boat before he was killed, \"Welcome Aboard!\".
But the thing that gets me is the way the Americans are portrayed in this film. They are undisciplined and self-serving. One member of the boarding party, Mizolla, is a coward and a mutineer. He would be just a unruly jerk if it wasn\'t for the fact that the crew actually listens to him. Compare that to the U-boat crew. They may be hard but they are cohesive and professional. What is Mostow trying to say? He portrays \"the Nazis\" as professionals and the Americans as incompetent.
Even the one act of mercy that the Americans do offer is handled ineptly. I refer to the scene were the American crew rescues the U-571\'s electrician. They take this guy on board as their prisoner. This is supposed to add more conflict and problems for the rest of the film. But oddly enough it actually vindicates the U-571\'s captain and his orders to kill the British survivors.
Let\'s remember what this guy did when they rescued him. He sabotages the U-boat to prevent it from reaching a safe port. He kills one of the Americans. During a depth charge attack, he signals the German destroyer to give away the U-571\'s position (\"I am U-571, destroy me!\") . So much for gratitude. But what am I supposed to make of that?
Can we blame the Germans for issuing orders that prevented the pick up of survivors? Would the British survivors act any differently? I mean the U-571 did sink their steamer. How did we know that those guys wouldn\'t try to get revenge?
All in All. I think that Mostow\'s heart was in the right place. But he missed the point. If he had called this movie a quirky adventure exploitation flick I would have no leg to stand on. But when he said this movie was a accurate telling of history, he elevated the standards needed to keep the historical past in proper perspective. And it is a challenge Mostow can\'t meet.
But on that note let me say. Hollywood should stop trying to do politics. Especially extreme politics like Nazism because they don\'t understand it. Movies like American History X and Schindler\'s List make major miscalculations. In American History X, Nazism gives the main character great qualities that turn his life in to the stuff of leaders( better explained at www.prisonflicks.com/american.htm). In Schindler\'s List, the Holocaust is made to look like the deranged musing of a nut and not the evil motions of a terrible government. Schindler\'s List doesn\'t give the feeling that orders are coming down from on high.
The government was run by deranged nuts. Though centralized, to believe it was a effient government is a mistake. Nazism does not equal ruthless efficiency. The Nazi regime was often chaotic, unfocused, and delusional. In terms of governments, it folded very quickly. But to watch some movies from Hollywood, you wouldn\'t beleive that.
That is not to say that movies always get it wrong. Romper Stomper, which was done in Australia (way to go Aussies), portrayed Neo-Nazis as stupid, foolhardy and kind of crazy. In the end, their zealousness betrays them. In Stalingrad, the Nazi invasion of Russia grinds its soldiers down until they lose everything they had including their lives. Now that sends a better message about Nazism.
I think its nutty that Hollywood would pervert that truth just so they could sell a few tickets.
Clark
</HTML>
Nazis do make great bad guys. Their image has graced many great films. Some films are action adventure epics like the Von Ryan Express and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Others are deep sentiments on the atrocities of Europe like Schindler\'s List. The neo-Nazis are also represented on celluloid like American History X and Romper Stomper( I know it was made in Australia but bear with me).
Recently, we have been outraged by the portrayal of U-boat sailors in U-571. It\'s no secret that the director wanted the German sailors to be identified with Nazi bad guys. No image better portrays that than the machine gunning of survivors scene. Remember, Mostow said that U-boat sailors were \"hardcore Nazis\" and believed that Germany would \"take over the world.\" But I wonder, wouldn\'t U-571 be a great film for recruiting Nazis?
Think about it.
This movie leans heavily towards making the Nazis look good and the Americans look bad. The crew of the U-571 are competent and professional. The crew of the S-33 are cold and rebellious.
To beat a dead horse, lets take the scene were the U-571 shoots the British survivors and the scene were the S-33 boards the U-571.
When the Captain of the U-571 orders the survivors the British steamer to be shot, the crewman at the machine gun seems shocked. He turns toward the captain and shakes his head no. The captain explains that letting the survivors go could be risky. His final words sum it up \"Get on with it.\" Granted the U-boat crew shows no emotion at the death of the British crew (unlike Das Boot). But the German crew act like they don\'t do this all the time.
Now the Americans are far more ruthless. As I said before in another post, the Americans are deliberately misleading the crew on the U-571. They disguise their sub as a U-boat and wear German uniforms. For the sole purpose of getting the U-boat crew to drop their guard and invite the Americans on to their decks.
Ya know? It\'s one thing to submerge underwater and use that as camouflage to sneak up on a enemy steamer that is running supplies to your enemy. It\'s quite another thing, when you tell lies and tell your enemy that you are on their side. Remember the last words one of the U-boat before he was killed, \"Welcome Aboard!\".
But the thing that gets me is the way the Americans are portrayed in this film. They are undisciplined and self-serving. One member of the boarding party, Mizolla, is a coward and a mutineer. He would be just a unruly jerk if it wasn\'t for the fact that the crew actually listens to him. Compare that to the U-boat crew. They may be hard but they are cohesive and professional. What is Mostow trying to say? He portrays \"the Nazis\" as professionals and the Americans as incompetent.
Even the one act of mercy that the Americans do offer is handled ineptly. I refer to the scene were the American crew rescues the U-571\'s electrician. They take this guy on board as their prisoner. This is supposed to add more conflict and problems for the rest of the film. But oddly enough it actually vindicates the U-571\'s captain and his orders to kill the British survivors.
Let\'s remember what this guy did when they rescued him. He sabotages the U-boat to prevent it from reaching a safe port. He kills one of the Americans. During a depth charge attack, he signals the German destroyer to give away the U-571\'s position (\"I am U-571, destroy me!\") . So much for gratitude. But what am I supposed to make of that?
Can we blame the Germans for issuing orders that prevented the pick up of survivors? Would the British survivors act any differently? I mean the U-571 did sink their steamer. How did we know that those guys wouldn\'t try to get revenge?
All in All. I think that Mostow\'s heart was in the right place. But he missed the point. If he had called this movie a quirky adventure exploitation flick I would have no leg to stand on. But when he said this movie was a accurate telling of history, he elevated the standards needed to keep the historical past in proper perspective. And it is a challenge Mostow can\'t meet.
But on that note let me say. Hollywood should stop trying to do politics. Especially extreme politics like Nazism because they don\'t understand it. Movies like American History X and Schindler\'s List make major miscalculations. In American History X, Nazism gives the main character great qualities that turn his life in to the stuff of leaders( better explained at www.prisonflicks.com/american.htm). In Schindler\'s List, the Holocaust is made to look like the deranged musing of a nut and not the evil motions of a terrible government. Schindler\'s List doesn\'t give the feeling that orders are coming down from on high.
The government was run by deranged nuts. Though centralized, to believe it was a effient government is a mistake. Nazism does not equal ruthless efficiency. The Nazi regime was often chaotic, unfocused, and delusional. In terms of governments, it folded very quickly. But to watch some movies from Hollywood, you wouldn\'t beleive that.
That is not to say that movies always get it wrong. Romper Stomper, which was done in Australia (way to go Aussies), portrayed Neo-Nazis as stupid, foolhardy and kind of crazy. In the end, their zealousness betrays them. In Stalingrad, the Nazi invasion of Russia grinds its soldiers down until they lose everything they had including their lives. Now that sends a better message about Nazism.
I think its nutty that Hollywood would pervert that truth just so they could sell a few tickets.
Clark
</HTML>
Nazism-Hollywood style