General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
The bomb, etc.
Posted by:
SuperKraut
()
Date: July 25, 2001 10:55AM
<HTML>\">I heard the point of view many times, that the USA constructed A-bomb because of the Jews. This is certain not correct.<\" Yes and no. The sentence is basically misleading. The Manhattan Project was started due to a letter sent to Roosevelt by Einstein, however, the letter was written by Leo Szilard who talked Einstein into signing and sending it. There is no doubt that without the letter, the Manhattan project would have been significantly delayed, although not prevented. That is what is pointed out by my phrase \">The American atomic bomb in 1945….<\".
You greatly exaggerate the industrial effort and resources needed to build the first atomic bomb. The Manhattan Project cost $ 2 billion, which was about 1/5 of the value of US Lend Lease to the Soviet Union. The Americans also covered every possible technical route to the bomb and they were in a hurry. The gas diffusion plant in Oak Ridge, which was used to separate the Uranium isotopes, accounted for close to half the investment and it was superfluous. Germany had adequate resources to pursue the plutonium route, especially if a serious project had been started in 1939.
What was missing in most countries in the period was not so much sheer industrial size, but sophisticated industry and scientific brainpower. Virtually any item manufactured in 1939 could be obtained from a Germany company and many could only be obtained in Germany. There were only a handful of scientists available at the time who could come up with the theoretical foundation for the bomb and most of them were in Central Europe in 1933. Hitler\'s persecution of the Jews had two effects, it caused the Jewish Germans and some other Central Europeans to leave and they eventually wound up in the US. The other equally important effect was to greatly reduce the motivation of many of the remaining scientists, notably Heisenberg, to give Hitler such a weapon. Neither one of these effects would have happened in the days of the Kaiser or with a competent government because there would have been no cause. As it was, Heisenberg limited his participation in the nuclear program to building a \"Uranium machine\" which would, among other things, power U-boats.
\">The country which imports mercury from Japan and brings it by U-boats and which havn\'t zinc for the production of Iron Crosses cannot hope for the realization of such difficult technical project.<\" That describes the situation in 1944 when the war was already lost. A competent government which followed the strategies outlined in my von Clausewitz post would never get into such a mess.
\">In 1938 USSR was the second country in the world by the volume of industrial production. During 2WW in the USSR was built more tanks, ircraft, guns etc. than in Germany.<\" The second sentence does not prove the first. Germany was the second largest industrial power up to 1944 when strategic bombing wiped out key parts of the industrial complex. The Soviet Union was able to produce more tanks, guns, aircraft, etc. because that was almost all it was producing. Remember the key industrial equipment and supplies coming in thanks to Lend Lease. Germany, for example, had the world\'s largest chemical industry at the time and still had a significant civilian manufacturing sector even in 1944.
\">For this reason USA created the A-bomb in 1945, USSR in 1949, Great Britain in 1956.<\" Not quite. The US got the bomb in 1945 because they spent $ 2 billion, which was less than 1% of their gross national product, on a crash program and because they had accumulated the necessary brainpower partially due to mistaken Nazi policy. The Soviets had to wait until 1949 for several reasons and the ruinous state of the Soviet economy was one of them. Other were lack of uranium, which had to come from Germany, and the underdeveloped state of several key industries. Note that most of the uranium used by the Soviet nuclear program was mined in East Germany. Britain was in no hurry to get their own bomb since they had access to the American data and to US nuclear protection. The British bomb was developed at a rather sedate pace.
\">With quite good conditions Germany could not create the A-bomb earlier
than Great Britain.<\" I obviously disagree. See above for details.
\">Without having carried out this task to the end 1941 Germany mast be recognize its defeat. Sooner or later the defeat of Germany was unavoidable.<\" Not so fast. I agree that Hitler was a loser, but the situation at the end of 1941 was still salvageable for a competent leadership. The \"White Russian\" strategy could still be played at that time and the window of negotiating with Stalin did not close until spring 1943. Hitler\'s \"Lebensraum\" objective was never feasible, but some sort of accommodation in the east was feasible.
\">It is amazing that Hitler could not understand such simple things.<\" That is why he was an incompetent ruler. You also have to add the fact that he did not listen to his experts. Much of what went wrong on the eastern front was forecast by the eastern European experts of the OKW, but Hitler did not listen. We often mention on this forum the fact that Hitler was not a sailor. It is also interesting to point out that he never saw the eastern front during WWI.
Regards,
SuperKraut</HTML>
You greatly exaggerate the industrial effort and resources needed to build the first atomic bomb. The Manhattan Project cost $ 2 billion, which was about 1/5 of the value of US Lend Lease to the Soviet Union. The Americans also covered every possible technical route to the bomb and they were in a hurry. The gas diffusion plant in Oak Ridge, which was used to separate the Uranium isotopes, accounted for close to half the investment and it was superfluous. Germany had adequate resources to pursue the plutonium route, especially if a serious project had been started in 1939.
What was missing in most countries in the period was not so much sheer industrial size, but sophisticated industry and scientific brainpower. Virtually any item manufactured in 1939 could be obtained from a Germany company and many could only be obtained in Germany. There were only a handful of scientists available at the time who could come up with the theoretical foundation for the bomb and most of them were in Central Europe in 1933. Hitler\'s persecution of the Jews had two effects, it caused the Jewish Germans and some other Central Europeans to leave and they eventually wound up in the US. The other equally important effect was to greatly reduce the motivation of many of the remaining scientists, notably Heisenberg, to give Hitler such a weapon. Neither one of these effects would have happened in the days of the Kaiser or with a competent government because there would have been no cause. As it was, Heisenberg limited his participation in the nuclear program to building a \"Uranium machine\" which would, among other things, power U-boats.
\">The country which imports mercury from Japan and brings it by U-boats and which havn\'t zinc for the production of Iron Crosses cannot hope for the realization of such difficult technical project.<\" That describes the situation in 1944 when the war was already lost. A competent government which followed the strategies outlined in my von Clausewitz post would never get into such a mess.
\">In 1938 USSR was the second country in the world by the volume of industrial production. During 2WW in the USSR was built more tanks, ircraft, guns etc. than in Germany.<\" The second sentence does not prove the first. Germany was the second largest industrial power up to 1944 when strategic bombing wiped out key parts of the industrial complex. The Soviet Union was able to produce more tanks, guns, aircraft, etc. because that was almost all it was producing. Remember the key industrial equipment and supplies coming in thanks to Lend Lease. Germany, for example, had the world\'s largest chemical industry at the time and still had a significant civilian manufacturing sector even in 1944.
\">For this reason USA created the A-bomb in 1945, USSR in 1949, Great Britain in 1956.<\" Not quite. The US got the bomb in 1945 because they spent $ 2 billion, which was less than 1% of their gross national product, on a crash program and because they had accumulated the necessary brainpower partially due to mistaken Nazi policy. The Soviets had to wait until 1949 for several reasons and the ruinous state of the Soviet economy was one of them. Other were lack of uranium, which had to come from Germany, and the underdeveloped state of several key industries. Note that most of the uranium used by the Soviet nuclear program was mined in East Germany. Britain was in no hurry to get their own bomb since they had access to the American data and to US nuclear protection. The British bomb was developed at a rather sedate pace.
\">With quite good conditions Germany could not create the A-bomb earlier
than Great Britain.<\" I obviously disagree. See above for details.
\">Without having carried out this task to the end 1941 Germany mast be recognize its defeat. Sooner or later the defeat of Germany was unavoidable.<\" Not so fast. I agree that Hitler was a loser, but the situation at the end of 1941 was still salvageable for a competent leadership. The \"White Russian\" strategy could still be played at that time and the window of negotiating with Stalin did not close until spring 1943. Hitler\'s \"Lebensraum\" objective was never feasible, but some sort of accommodation in the east was feasible.
\">It is amazing that Hitler could not understand such simple things.<\" That is why he was an incompetent ruler. You also have to add the fact that he did not listen to his experts. Much of what went wrong on the eastern front was forecast by the eastern European experts of the OKW, but Hitler did not listen. We often mention on this forum the fact that Hitler was not a sailor. It is also interesting to point out that he never saw the eastern front during WWI.
Regards,
SuperKraut</HTML>
| Subject | Written By | Posted |
|---|---|---|
To Adrian
|
SuperKraut | 07/17/2001 09:11PM |
|
RE: To Adrian
|
adrian | 07/17/2001 11:46PM |
|
Of gamblers and leaders
|
SuperKraut | 07/18/2001 06:53AM |
|
Plan Z and Ramifications
|
adrian | 07/18/2001 09:46AM |
|
Plan Z and Ramifications
|
adrian | 07/18/2001 09:47AM |
|
RE: Of gamblers and leaders
|
walter M | 07/18/2001 07:55PM |
|
Von Clausewitz
|
SuperKraut | 07/19/2001 03:13PM |
|
RE: Von Clausewitz
|
walter M | 07/19/2001 09:29PM |
|
RE: Von Clausewitz
|
Yuri IL\'IN | 07/24/2001 12:10AM |
|
RE: Von Clausewitz
|
Yuri IL\'IN | 07/24/2001 12:14AM |
|
The bomb, etc.
|
SuperKraut | 07/25/2001 10:55AM |
|
RE: The bomb, etc.
|
Yuri IL\'IN | 07/25/2001 03:57PM |
|
RE: The bomb, etc.
|
Yuri IL\'IN | 08/27/2001 11:15AM |
|
The failure of the will
|
kurt | 07/25/2001 09:44PM |