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This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII. 
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines
Posted by: francesco mattesini ()
Date: March 22, 2012 07:10AM

Platon Alexiades Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you all for your answers.
>
> Rainer: I am taking your advice and will be more
> specific!
> Let me stress that I am looking especially for
> attacks that missed U-boats. U-boats sunk by
> Allied submarines are usually well documented.
>
> Rodney: the sinking of U-95 by Dutch O.21 was
> known to me as well as NARWHAL's part in directing
> the escort of convoy HN 14 to U-63 and subsequent
> demise. Incidentally, this is I think one of the
> rare instances of a submarine in convoy escort
> duty being of some use. I have another attack,
> this time by HMS SEVERN on a submarine while on
> escort duty (convoy HG.69, although she was
> detached at the time), it occurred at 0056-0101/7
> August 1941, when she fired a salvo of 4 torpedoes
> at a submarine described as Italian of SQUALO,
> CORRIDONI or SANTA ROSA class, she fired a fifth
> then a sixth torpedo but apparently all missed.
> This has led to believe that she sank the MICHELE
> BIANCHI (see Hezlet and others) but Rohwer
> correctly points out that this is unlikely. The
> concensus is that MICHELE BIANCHI was sunk by
> TIGRIS on 5 July 1941.
> Some years ago, I was told by the ModD that the
> submarine was likely to be U-93 which was missed.
> Can anyone confirm it?
>
> Walter: SPIKEFISH sank the Japanese submarine
> I-373 on 14 August 1945 in 29°02 N/123°53 E,
> certainly one of the last actions of the war.
> JANAC states the date was 13 August but this is
> probably something to do with the time zone. For
> U.S. submarine attacks, I recommend the book by
> John D. Alden "U.S. Submarine Attacks during World
> War Two", he does include the attacks by British
> and Dutch submarines in the Far East.
>
> GertFroebe: the attack you mention in Herbert
> Werner's book (on U-557) actually occurred at
> 1250/15 June 1941 when HMS THUNDERBOLT (ex-THETIS)
> fired a salvo of four torpedoes at the U-boat in
> 41°32 N/46°39 W (the U-boat reported being
> attacked in Quadrat CC 3656 (41°33 N/ 47°04
> W), the range was 4,500 yds and all missed. Two
> other torpedoes misfired. At 1312.5 she fired
> another two torpedoes, also missed. The presence
> of the British submarine was not accidental as she
> had been sailed from Halifax to the area by an
> ULTRA signal, this was possibly due to the capture
> of U-110 or perhaps through documents seized on
> the supply ships captured following the sinking of
> the BISMARCK.
>
> Dan: thanks for pointing out the ressources of
> this site, sometime one needs a map to navigate
> through it!
>
> Best regards to you all,
>
> Platon
>
> Thanks again






Caro Platon
Condivido quello che ai detto, dal momento che anche io sono convinto che ad affondare il BIANCHI sia stato quasi certamente il TIGRIS. Però ci sono dei punti che vanno chiariti. Se il sommergibile attaccato era assieme a due pescherecci, ed un aereo tedesco, riconosciuto per Ju 88 era in zona, è vi sarebbe stata un’esplosione di siluro, perché tutto è passato senza testimonianze. Può darsi che si trattasse di due pescherecci non francesi, ma spagnoli, ma anche in questo caso difficilmente l’episodio poteva passare sotto silenzio. Se come tu affermi il TiGRIS ha commesso vari errori di avvistamento, allora perché credere che abbia sicuramente affondato il sommergibile italiano ?
Inoltre, resta il mistero dell’esplosione dei due siluri lanciati dal TIGRIS che, secondo quanto ha accertato l’Ammiragliato britannico, si verificarono contro qualcosa che non era il bersaglio del sommergibile. Di cosa si trattava ?
Rispondendo all’Ufficio Storico della Marina Militare, con lettera H.S.L.129/58, del 31 dicembre 1958, laHistorical Section dell’Admiralty, ha scritto:
“At 1001/5 July, H.M. S/M Tigris reported firing two torpedoes at a submarine of the Squalo class which was outward bound in 45°03’, 4°01’W. Result of this attack is non known, but the Tigris heard the explosion of her torpedoes.”
Quindi l’Ammiragliato metteva allora in dubbio il successo del TIGRIS. Vi è stato un ripensamento ?
Sull’episodio, da parte italiana la documentazione è quella che ho esposto nel precedente mail, e non vi è poco da aggiungere. Il BIANCHI partì il 4 luglio 1941 da Bordeaux, e non dette più sue notizie. Chiamato ripetutamente alla radio da Betasom tra il 12 e il 18 luglio non rispose. Quindi, le possibilità che sia stato affondato il 5 luglio proprio dal TIGRIS, in lat. 45°03’N, long. 04°01’W, all’incirca sulla rotta di uscita del sommergibile dalla base, appaiono ineccepibili.
Tuttavia, soltanto sapendo chi fossero quei due pescherecci, a tanta distanza da Bordeaux, e che cosa facessero vicino al BIANCHI, nonché quale fu la causa dell’esplosione dei due siluri del TIGRIS (su un'altra nave ?), potrebbe fornire una prova sicura.
Codialmente
Francesco

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Subject Written By Posted
U-boats attacked by allied submarines Platon Alexiades 02/20/2005 07:02PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Rodney Martin 02/21/2005 05:26PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Platon Alexiades 02/22/2005 04:37AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Wiljan Bakers 02/22/2005 01:28PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines francesco mattesini 03/22/2012 07:10AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Platon Alexiades 03/22/2012 03:43PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Rainer Kolbicz 02/21/2005 06:20PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Walter Schmidt 02/21/2005 09:48PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Walter Schmidt 02/21/2005 09:54PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines GertFroebe 02/21/2005 11:00PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines ROBERT M. 02/22/2005 07:20AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Rainer Bruns 02/22/2005 04:58PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines ROBERT M. 02/22/2005 07:51PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines J.T. McDaniel 02/23/2005 12:44AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines ROBERT M. 02/23/2005 01:47AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines ROBERT M. 02/23/2005 05:28AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Dan Odenweller 02/22/2005 01:51AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Joe Cornelius 02/22/2005 12:49PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines herbert gratz 02/22/2005 02:01PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Platon Alexiades 02/22/2005 04:38PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Joe Cornelius 02/23/2005 10:54AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Platon Alexiades 02/24/2005 02:20AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Joe Cornelius 02/24/2005 02:51PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Platon Alexiades 02/24/2005 05:06PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines francesco mattesini 03/19/2012 07:57AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines Platon Alexiades 03/20/2012 05:43PM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines francesco mattesini 03/22/2012 07:12AM
Re: U-boats attacked by allied submarines R Banfield 08/15/2012 06:33AM


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