General Discussions  
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII. 
Re: Ultramar Sur
Posted by: Paul ()
Date: November 01, 2007 07:54PM

Hi Marco,

You are correct. 'Ultramar Sur' or 'Overseas South: The Ultimate secret operation of the Third Reich' contains a bit of fact (about U-530 & U-977), but is mostly fantasy.

Authors Juan Salinas and Carlos DeNapoli claim that a fleet of U-boats (including 530 & 977) departed Norway at the end of the war, and ferried treasure and high ranking German officials to South America. Though it is true that some German officials did make it to South America following the war, there is no evidence that they had been ferried there by U-boats, much less that any of those un-accounted-for U-boats lie where they had allegedly been scuttled, in shallow waters off the coast of Argentina.

Salinas and DeNapoli make the completely false claim that U-977 (a medium range Type VIIC) traveled from Norway to the Gulf of Maine, with less than a full load of fuel, then torpedoed and sank the U.S. Navy sub-chaser USS Eagle PE-56 on 23 April 1945. The PE-56 had actually been sunk by the Type IXC/40 U-853 (KL Froemsdorf). They (Salinas & DeNapoli) then claim that U-977 headed South where it torpedoed and sank the Brazilian cruiser Bahia, before she (977) surrendered at Mar del Plata, Argentina in August of '45. To the best of my recollection, the Bahia Court of Inquiry concluded, through testimony of many survivirs, that an aft 20mm battery taking part in aerial target practice, accidentally discharged several HE shells, while the battery was fully depressed, into her (Bahia's) aft depth-charge racks, setting them off. Bahia sank by the stern in just minutes, with (I believe) about 340 Officers and crewmen lost.

Though U-977's KL Heinz Schaeffer may not have been fully truthful about his last patrol while under interrogation, the PE-56 and Bahia attacks were not of his doing. It is actually hard to believe that U-977 could have made the long trip from Norway to Argentina with the limited fuel he allegedly bunkered before she departed on her last voyage.

Clearly, however, Salinas' and DeNapoli's account is simply fiction, based loosely on some underlying facts, which make their book that much more offensive. If you want to simply make up a 'hard-to-believe' story, then also make up the boats involved. This was also the basis of my poor account for the ridiculous movie U-571.

Ragards,

Paul

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Subject Written By Posted
Ubersee Sud Marco Martinetti 10/31/2007 07:44PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Paul 11/01/2007 07:54PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Davenz 11/02/2007 04:36AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 11/02/2007 06:27PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Davenz 11/02/2007 09:25PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Carlos De Napoli 11/07/2007 12:56PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Paul Lawton 11/07/2007 03:16PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Carlos De Napoli 11/08/2007 02:30AM
Ultramar Sur rick 12/21/2007 12:55AM
Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! Terry Andrews 11/08/2007 11:44PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/09/2007 03:22AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Terry Andrews 11/09/2007 05:55AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order DanOdenweller 11/09/2007 02:15PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/09/2007 03:10PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Napoli 11/10/2007 07:40PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Bruce Dennis 11/11/2007 12:59AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/11/2007 07:12PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/11/2007 08:28PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/11/2007 09:27PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order paul 11/12/2007 03:36AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/12/2007 03:01PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Heinrich 12/09/2007 09:20PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Bruce Dennis 11/11/2007 09:37PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order ROBERT M. 12/10/2007 04:30PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Ken Dunn 11/09/2007 03:17PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order ROBERT M. 11/09/2007 08:34AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos Mey 11/29/2007 03:00PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/29/2007 04:09PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Marco Martinetti 11/29/2007 04:32PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order paul tjader 11/29/2007 05:29PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order geoffreybrooks 12/20/2007 08:56PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 12/21/2007 01:38AM
Re: Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! rick 12/21/2007 03:39AM
Re: Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! Paul 12/21/2007 04:41AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/10/2007 06:52PM
Re: Ubersee Sud ROBERT M. 12/11/2007 07:24AM
Re: Overseas South Pedro 12/11/2007 01:07PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/11/2007 05:39PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/12/2007 01:10PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/20/2007 11:59PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/21/2007 01:41AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/21/2007 09:09PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/22/2007 02:58AM
Re: Ubersee Sud ROBERT M. 12/22/2007 03:44AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/22/2007 05:19AM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/22/2007 02:19PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/22/2007 03:35PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/22/2007 09:21PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 05:16PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/23/2007 08:37PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 02:22AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/22/2007 04:56PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 04:47PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/23/2007 07:23PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 09:32PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Ken Dunn 12/23/2007 07:59PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 09:39PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 02:10AM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía DanOdenweller 12/24/2007 03:26AM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía Paul 12/24/2007 03:03PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 04:42PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 06:46PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía ROBERT M. 12/24/2007 10:12PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/24/2007 09:50AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 03:00PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/25/2007 04:48AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/25/2007 02:49PM
Re: Ubersee Sud paul 12/26/2007 02:03PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/27/2007 07:32PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/28/2007 01:08AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/28/2007 02:23AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/28/2007 01:54PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/28/2007 03:14AM
"Swinging the lantern" MPC 12/28/2007 11:09AM
Re: Rumours or Half Truths? Terry Andrews 12/28/2007 05:00PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - This thread has been closed. Forum Moderator 12/28/2007 05:27PM


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