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This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII. 
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order
Posted by: Paul ()
Date: December 21, 2007 01:38AM

Hello Mr. Brooks,

A lot of words, speculation and conjecture, but still not a single grain of credible, tangible evidence to support your preposterous assertions.

What are the precise citations to your claims, and where is the repository of these documents for authentication? Commander Shaffer somewhere admitted sinking the Brazilian cruiser Bahia with his "floating delacessen" in a "bizarre accident and no torpedo was fired."? What did the U-977 sink the Bahia with, an explosive salami?

Sounds like a great tactic, it's too bad Admiral Doenitz didn't figure that trick out in about May of 1943!

Hundreds of men died aboard the Bahia, and hundreds survived, and gave testimony about the cause of the sinking. Why would the Brazilian government cover up for the loss of one of their own warships? To cover up for some ridiculous collaboration between their neighbor, Argentina, and their declared wartime enemy, Germany, while Brazil had been fully allied, and cooperative with the U.S. military during the war?

You recite the same, old rumors, myths, and conspiracy theories that we have seen all too often on this website, and others. The old story about the "extra" U-boat crewmen that were sent home with the Graff Spee survivors. Some overseas, foreign nationals may have made it back home to Germany following the war, with illegitimate credentials, but no one has ever proven that U-boat crews were repatriated back to Germany from Argentina, with the Graff Spee survivors. German citizens of the time, both military and civilian, were meticulous about their identification paperwork. The U.S. customs and military authorities would not simply have allowed a shipload of former enemy military personnel and foreign nationals to have disembarked on U.S. soil without a thorough vetting of their identification credentials. How did these 80 or so U-boat crewmen get spotted, and identified as having been actual U-boat crewmen? They clearly would have had to have produced some sort of identification. They would have had names, dates and places of birth, next of kin, military identification numbers, commanding officers and the number of a boat taht they had been assigned to. Apparently, the U.S. customs and military authorities simply identified 80 U-boat crewmen coming from Argentina, and placed them back aboard a ship heading to Germany. Absolutely Preposterous!

Eighty U-boat men would have been proof of at least two additional Type VIIs having made it to Argentina (aside from U-530 and U-977), having an average of 46 to 48 men aboard each boat. This would not have put up a red flag to U.S. Military authorities? Furthermore, none of these men have ever come forward with their respective stories after the war? None would have attempted to profit by publishing "The Greatest Story Never Told"? No...they all took this remarkable, history changing tale with them to their graves?

And why would the Kriegsmarine have used a small Type VIIC like the U-977 as a gargo carrying "floating delicatessen", when they had ample numbers of operational Type Xs, Type IXD/2s and Type IXD/40s, at their disposal.

That very far fetched tale also flies in the face of your other premise, that "100 German U-boat men can have assimilated into local (Argentine and Chilean) society with false identities." Again, apparently none of these hiding U-boat crewmen ever came forward with their stories, and even went further, to abandon their respective families by going into complete seclusion for all these years. U-boat men abandoned their wives, parents, children, simply to assimilate into the South American population? For what purpose?

That doesn't say much for your opinion of the German family unit, or blood loyalty. It all simply sound very foolish, and of no genuine historical value, whatsoever.

You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how bizarre, but this is a history forum, not a fantasy forum. You are on the wrong website.

Regards,

Paul

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Subject Written By Posted
Ubersee Sud Marco Martinetti 10/31/2007 07:44PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Paul 11/01/2007 07:54PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Davenz 11/02/2007 04:36AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 11/02/2007 06:27PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Davenz 11/02/2007 09:25PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Carlos De Napoli 11/07/2007 12:56PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Paul Lawton 11/07/2007 03:16PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Carlos De Napoli 11/08/2007 02:30AM
Ultramar Sur rick 12/21/2007 12:55AM
Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! Terry Andrews 11/08/2007 11:44PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/09/2007 03:22AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Terry Andrews 11/09/2007 05:55AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order DanOdenweller 11/09/2007 02:15PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/09/2007 03:10PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Napoli 11/10/2007 07:40PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Bruce Dennis 11/11/2007 12:59AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/11/2007 07:12PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/11/2007 08:28PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/11/2007 09:27PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order paul 11/12/2007 03:36AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/12/2007 03:01PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Heinrich 12/09/2007 09:20PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Bruce Dennis 11/11/2007 09:37PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order ROBERT M. 12/10/2007 04:30PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Ken Dunn 11/09/2007 03:17PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order ROBERT M. 11/09/2007 08:34AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos Mey 11/29/2007 03:00PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/29/2007 04:09PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Marco Martinetti 11/29/2007 04:32PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order paul tjader 11/29/2007 05:29PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order geoffreybrooks 12/20/2007 08:56PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 12/21/2007 01:38AM
Re: Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! rick 12/21/2007 03:39AM
Re: Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! Paul 12/21/2007 04:41AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/10/2007 06:52PM
Re: Ubersee Sud ROBERT M. 12/11/2007 07:24AM
Re: Overseas South Pedro 12/11/2007 01:07PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/11/2007 05:39PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/12/2007 01:10PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/20/2007 11:59PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/21/2007 01:41AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/21/2007 09:09PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/22/2007 02:58AM
Re: Ubersee Sud ROBERT M. 12/22/2007 03:44AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/22/2007 05:19AM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/22/2007 02:19PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/22/2007 03:35PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/22/2007 09:21PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 05:16PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/23/2007 08:37PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 02:22AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/22/2007 04:56PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 04:47PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/23/2007 07:23PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 09:32PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Ken Dunn 12/23/2007 07:59PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 09:39PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 02:10AM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía DanOdenweller 12/24/2007 03:26AM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía Paul 12/24/2007 03:03PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 04:42PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 06:46PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía ROBERT M. 12/24/2007 10:12PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/24/2007 09:50AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 03:00PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/25/2007 04:48AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/25/2007 02:49PM
Re: Ubersee Sud paul 12/26/2007 02:03PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/27/2007 07:32PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/28/2007 01:08AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/28/2007 02:23AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/28/2007 01:54PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/28/2007 03:14AM
"Swinging the lantern" MPC 12/28/2007 11:09AM
Re: Rumours or Half Truths? Terry Andrews 12/28/2007 05:00PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - This thread has been closed. Forum Moderator 12/28/2007 05:27PM


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