General Discussions
This is the place to discuss general issues related to the U-boat war or the war at sea in WWII.
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order
Posted by:
Paul
()
Date: December 21, 2007 01:38AM
Hello Mr. Brooks,
A lot of words, speculation and conjecture, but still not a single grain of credible, tangible evidence to support your preposterous assertions.
What are the precise citations to your claims, and where is the repository of these documents for authentication? Commander Shaffer somewhere admitted sinking the Brazilian cruiser Bahia with his "floating delacessen" in a "bizarre accident and no torpedo was fired."? What did the U-977 sink the Bahia with, an explosive salami?
Sounds like a great tactic, it's too bad Admiral Doenitz didn't figure that trick out in about May of 1943!
Hundreds of men died aboard the Bahia, and hundreds survived, and gave testimony about the cause of the sinking. Why would the Brazilian government cover up for the loss of one of their own warships? To cover up for some ridiculous collaboration between their neighbor, Argentina, and their declared wartime enemy, Germany, while Brazil had been fully allied, and cooperative with the U.S. military during the war?
You recite the same, old rumors, myths, and conspiracy theories that we have seen all too often on this website, and others. The old story about the "extra" U-boat crewmen that were sent home with the Graff Spee survivors. Some overseas, foreign nationals may have made it back home to Germany following the war, with illegitimate credentials, but no one has ever proven that U-boat crews were repatriated back to Germany from Argentina, with the Graff Spee survivors. German citizens of the time, both military and civilian, were meticulous about their identification paperwork. The U.S. customs and military authorities would not simply have allowed a shipload of former enemy military personnel and foreign nationals to have disembarked on U.S. soil without a thorough vetting of their identification credentials. How did these 80 or so U-boat crewmen get spotted, and identified as having been actual U-boat crewmen? They clearly would have had to have produced some sort of identification. They would have had names, dates and places of birth, next of kin, military identification numbers, commanding officers and the number of a boat taht they had been assigned to. Apparently, the U.S. customs and military authorities simply identified 80 U-boat crewmen coming from Argentina, and placed them back aboard a ship heading to Germany. Absolutely Preposterous!
Eighty U-boat men would have been proof of at least two additional Type VIIs having made it to Argentina (aside from U-530 and U-977), having an average of 46 to 48 men aboard each boat. This would not have put up a red flag to U.S. Military authorities? Furthermore, none of these men have ever come forward with their respective stories after the war? None would have attempted to profit by publishing "The Greatest Story Never Told"? No...they all took this remarkable, history changing tale with them to their graves?
And why would the Kriegsmarine have used a small Type VIIC like the U-977 as a gargo carrying "floating delicatessen", when they had ample numbers of operational Type Xs, Type IXD/2s and Type IXD/40s, at their disposal.
That very far fetched tale also flies in the face of your other premise, that "100 German U-boat men can have assimilated into local (Argentine and Chilean) society with false identities." Again, apparently none of these hiding U-boat crewmen ever came forward with their stories, and even went further, to abandon their respective families by going into complete seclusion for all these years. U-boat men abandoned their wives, parents, children, simply to assimilate into the South American population? For what purpose?
That doesn't say much for your opinion of the German family unit, or blood loyalty. It all simply sound very foolish, and of no genuine historical value, whatsoever.
You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how bizarre, but this is a history forum, not a fantasy forum. You are on the wrong website.
Regards,
Paul
A lot of words, speculation and conjecture, but still not a single grain of credible, tangible evidence to support your preposterous assertions.
What are the precise citations to your claims, and where is the repository of these documents for authentication? Commander Shaffer somewhere admitted sinking the Brazilian cruiser Bahia with his "floating delacessen" in a "bizarre accident and no torpedo was fired."? What did the U-977 sink the Bahia with, an explosive salami?
Sounds like a great tactic, it's too bad Admiral Doenitz didn't figure that trick out in about May of 1943!
Hundreds of men died aboard the Bahia, and hundreds survived, and gave testimony about the cause of the sinking. Why would the Brazilian government cover up for the loss of one of their own warships? To cover up for some ridiculous collaboration between their neighbor, Argentina, and their declared wartime enemy, Germany, while Brazil had been fully allied, and cooperative with the U.S. military during the war?
You recite the same, old rumors, myths, and conspiracy theories that we have seen all too often on this website, and others. The old story about the "extra" U-boat crewmen that were sent home with the Graff Spee survivors. Some overseas, foreign nationals may have made it back home to Germany following the war, with illegitimate credentials, but no one has ever proven that U-boat crews were repatriated back to Germany from Argentina, with the Graff Spee survivors. German citizens of the time, both military and civilian, were meticulous about their identification paperwork. The U.S. customs and military authorities would not simply have allowed a shipload of former enemy military personnel and foreign nationals to have disembarked on U.S. soil without a thorough vetting of their identification credentials. How did these 80 or so U-boat crewmen get spotted, and identified as having been actual U-boat crewmen? They clearly would have had to have produced some sort of identification. They would have had names, dates and places of birth, next of kin, military identification numbers, commanding officers and the number of a boat taht they had been assigned to. Apparently, the U.S. customs and military authorities simply identified 80 U-boat crewmen coming from Argentina, and placed them back aboard a ship heading to Germany. Absolutely Preposterous!
Eighty U-boat men would have been proof of at least two additional Type VIIs having made it to Argentina (aside from U-530 and U-977), having an average of 46 to 48 men aboard each boat. This would not have put up a red flag to U.S. Military authorities? Furthermore, none of these men have ever come forward with their respective stories after the war? None would have attempted to profit by publishing "The Greatest Story Never Told"? No...they all took this remarkable, history changing tale with them to their graves?
And why would the Kriegsmarine have used a small Type VIIC like the U-977 as a gargo carrying "floating delicatessen", when they had ample numbers of operational Type Xs, Type IXD/2s and Type IXD/40s, at their disposal.
That very far fetched tale also flies in the face of your other premise, that "100 German U-boat men can have assimilated into local (Argentine and Chilean) society with false identities." Again, apparently none of these hiding U-boat crewmen ever came forward with their stories, and even went further, to abandon their respective families by going into complete seclusion for all these years. U-boat men abandoned their wives, parents, children, simply to assimilate into the South American population? For what purpose?
That doesn't say much for your opinion of the German family unit, or blood loyalty. It all simply sound very foolish, and of no genuine historical value, whatsoever.
You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how bizarre, but this is a history forum, not a fantasy forum. You are on the wrong website.
Regards,
Paul
Array
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