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Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía
Posted by: geoffreybrooks ()
Date: December 24, 2007 04:42PM

Dear Paul

Schäffer denied consistently that he sank the "Bahía" although he was within a few miles of her at the time of the tragedy. I think I have made it clear that I was putting forward a theory. That is why I said that there seemed to be two options for the cause of the sinking: either "U-977 sank the Bahía theory" which has Admiral Saldanha da Gama's blessing, and the Official Brazilian Navy report with your drunken sailor.

I do not have "Ultramar Sur" with me but will provide you with the quote respecting the depth charges later today.

Taking what you say about the legal situation as true, it still leaves unresolved the question why "the drunken sailor" theory was fabricated. The difference between Torres Dias' report and the ten deck survivors was only that ten men saw the submarine and Torres Dias did not. Thus it was important that the submarine was out of the picture. Why?

As regards the alleged meeting between the two vessels, the incident of the disguised submarine in the rejected crew-depositions tallies with Schäffer's book. True he may have seen the report before 1950 and made it all up, but the Brazilian survivors saw what they said they saw, or do you find some reason to dispute that? Incidentally as I explained in the reply to DanO on 23 December, there is no doubt as to the provenance of the book.

There are certain other circumstances surrounding this sinking which raise questions, as you mention, particularly the nature of the damage to the ship reported by Lt Torres Dias. Presuming that 80% of the destructive force from thirty depth charges should have dissipated upwards, he expressed amazement that there should have been so much damage over the entire length of the ship, and that the bodies he saw appeared to have been subjected to some kind of whirlwind effect and were untouched by heat. He also mentioned the acrid chocolate-coloured smoke which lingered over the ship and which was new to his experience. When Schäffer arrived at Mar del Plata he had all equipment aboard except his flak ammunition which he said he had ditched on the way down.

I make it quite clear that this is a theory which you and I are simply discussing. I am not setting out to "deceive" anybody based on a "dubious" book, I could not care less whether I get a book published on the subject or not, and if what follows is correct I could not get a book published on the subject anyway.

Your questions suggest that the attack would have been premeditated and deliberate, perhaps to use some kind of experimental flak munition which he knew would destroy the cruiser. If so Schäffer would have been obliged to come up on the cruiser on the surface to fire. This would explain why he took no action to avoid the location where he knew the cruiser to be, and appeared as if from nowhere.

I have sent you an E-mail message at this point.

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Subject Written By Posted
Ubersee Sud Marco Martinetti 10/31/2007 07:44PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Paul 11/01/2007 07:54PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Davenz 11/02/2007 04:36AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 11/02/2007 06:27PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Davenz 11/02/2007 09:25PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Carlos De Napoli 11/07/2007 12:56PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Paul Lawton 11/07/2007 03:16PM
Re: Ultramar Sur Carlos De Napoli 11/08/2007 02:30AM
Ultramar Sur rick 12/21/2007 12:55AM
Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! Terry Andrews 11/08/2007 11:44PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/09/2007 03:22AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Terry Andrews 11/09/2007 05:55AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order DanOdenweller 11/09/2007 02:15PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/09/2007 03:10PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Napoli 11/10/2007 07:40PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Bruce Dennis 11/11/2007 12:59AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/11/2007 07:12PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/11/2007 08:28PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/11/2007 09:27PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order paul 11/12/2007 03:36AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos De Nápoli 11/12/2007 03:01PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Heinrich 12/09/2007 09:20PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Bruce Dennis 11/11/2007 09:37PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order ROBERT M. 12/10/2007 04:30PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Ken Dunn 11/09/2007 03:17PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order ROBERT M. 11/09/2007 08:34AM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Carlos Mey 11/29/2007 03:00PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 11/29/2007 04:09PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Marco Martinetti 11/29/2007 04:32PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order paul tjader 11/29/2007 05:29PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order geoffreybrooks 12/20/2007 08:56PM
Re: Ultramar Sur - Bildeberg & the New World Order Paul 12/21/2007 01:38AM
Re: Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! rick 12/21/2007 03:39AM
Re: Ultramar Sur "Cat among the Penguins"! Paul 12/21/2007 04:41AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/10/2007 06:52PM
Re: Ubersee Sud ROBERT M. 12/11/2007 07:24AM
Re: Overseas South Pedro 12/11/2007 01:07PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/11/2007 05:39PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/12/2007 01:10PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/20/2007 11:59PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/21/2007 01:41AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/21/2007 09:09PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/22/2007 02:58AM
Re: Ubersee Sud ROBERT M. 12/22/2007 03:44AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/22/2007 05:19AM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/22/2007 02:19PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/22/2007 03:35PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/22/2007 09:21PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 05:16PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Pedro 12/23/2007 08:37PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 02:22AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/22/2007 04:56PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 04:47PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/23/2007 07:23PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 09:32PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Ken Dunn 12/23/2007 07:59PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/23/2007 09:39PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 02:10AM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía DanOdenweller 12/24/2007 03:26AM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía Paul 12/24/2007 03:03PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 04:42PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 06:46PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - Sinking of the Cruiser Bahía ROBERT M. 12/24/2007 10:12PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Bruce Dennis 12/24/2007 09:50AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/24/2007 03:00PM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/25/2007 04:48AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/25/2007 02:49PM
Re: Ubersee Sud paul 12/26/2007 02:03PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/27/2007 07:32PM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/28/2007 01:08AM
Re: Ubersee Sud Paul 12/28/2007 02:23AM
Re: Ubersee Sud geoffreybrooks 12/28/2007 01:54PM
Re: Ubersee Sud DanOdenweller 12/28/2007 03:14AM
"Swinging the lantern" MPC 12/28/2007 11:09AM
Re: Rumours or Half Truths? Terry Andrews 12/28/2007 05:00PM
Re: Ubersee Sud - This thread has been closed. Forum Moderator 12/28/2007 05:27PM


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